SermonIndex Audio Sermons
SermonIndex - Promoting Revival to this Generation
Give To SermonIndex
Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : Franklin Graham's sad presentation of the "Gospel"

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 Next Page )
PosterThread
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re:

Quote:
there are active members of SI that defend the RCC and Mornominism.



??




_________________
Diane

 2012/2/22 18:08Profile
rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1330


 Re:

Excellent posts Brothertom

Frank, it is obvious that you have an agenda with this thread you have started but you will not admit that the way you started this thread is flawed.

I and others on here, because we saw the video clip you posted as seeing it different than the way you portrayed it to be, then now we are in question concerning what we believe or don’t believe.

I planned on the other post being my last but with much respect for Brothertom, Dianne and others I felt to come on here again.

Brothertom, everybody on here who has been on for a while know that you are one of the strongest advocates for true biblical doctrine but I have to say you have proven again the respect you have earned from the many excellent posts. I kind of believe that I believe it as strong as you do on true biblical doctrine but maybe I thought you were a little too strong about some things. But I must say I appreciate your stand altogether and also concerning this thread.

Frank, you have not lost my respect at all because you are a great advocate for true biblical doctrine also and I truly do enjoy your writings also and strong stand for the faith. That has never been in question on my stand point. I just didn’t agree with your analysis of the interview and still feel your judgment on Franklin concerning that particular interview was flawed. I do hope we can always be cordial to one another even when we see something a little different.

I also want to apologize for being maybe to straight forward on the judgmental issue. May God’s grace and riches blessings be yours in Christ Jesus.

Blessings to you Frank!

 2012/2/22 18:16Profile









 Re:

Quote:
there are active members of SI that defend the RCC and Mornominism.



Roadsign, I think they meaneth me.

In all actuality I do not.

However, even though their salvation messages are screwed up, they do a lot of good in the community and have worldwide programs and God will bless that. The principle of giving is not subjected to us Christians, it's for everyone, and God will bless His word for with God there is no respect of persons.

In these religions there is always this "other" message that they have to put forth. They ride on the coattail of Christ for the sole purpose of luring in people so they can teach their 'other' doctrines. If it's not Mary, it's the book of Mormon. On T.V they talk grace but when they get you hooked they vomit their crap on you. It's a whole den of iniquity. I hate religion!

 2012/2/22 18:32









 Re:

"Frank, it is obvious that you have an agenda with this thread you have started but you will not admit that the way you started this thread is flawed."

Rbanks, why would I admit to something that is not true? People can go back and read the three sentences that I wrote. They can also read where I quote Franklin verbatim. And what he said is wrong. If that is my " agenda" then I am guilty as charged. I am not sure why you are pitting one brother against another?

"But I must say I appreciate your stand altogether and also concerning this thread."

What is Brothertoms stand Rbanks? That he saw nothing wrong with the video? I quoted what Franklin said and then asked if people agreed with whether the Mormons worship the same Jesus as we do, as stated by Franklin? Do you agree with the Franklin quote from the video I posted? I then stated that Franklin said, when asked, that he believed Santorum, a professing Roman Catholic, not a man who has ever claimed to be born again, was a Christian because of his good morals. I asked if anyone agreed with that statement. A few people answered. And Solomon answered. What do you say brother. Is a man saved by his good morals? If not, then you agree with my assesment that Franklin was wrong. Everything else is just wood for a fire brother. These two questions started my thread and that is what I am sticking to and I do not apologise for asking these questions..........bro Frank


 2012/2/22 18:39









 Re:

I just received a letter from a good brother who shall remain nameless who reminded me that I usually do not stay on threads that have become "fruitless." It was a good admonition and I will take that as from the Lord. I know that everything has been said that can be said at least for me in the asking of the questions. But I will post no more on this thread. May the Lord bless every poster and may the Truth of the Gospel and the light of the Lord Jesus lead our way.................bro Frank


(edit) I will address any unresolved issues by anyone if they care to e-mail me.......... [email protected]

 2012/2/22 18:59









 Re:

New issue for you Appolus, and an opportunity for you to 'ante up' publicly as it were.

Do you believe that someone who denies the Eternal Sonship of Christ worships the Jesus Christ presented in the Bible? Would you consider that person a 'brother' or 'sister'? Or do you waffle on that?

OJ

 2012/2/22 19:21









 Re:


SScott wrote: "" It'd be nice to simply see Christians just get up and give bold true statements about the truth and not care what other people think about them, or care about how they are perceived.

The world is gonna mock you whether you are a flip flopper or if you are bold for the truth. Might as well be bold for the truth and honor Jesus. ""




Seems that should be our Scriptural agenda with the public.

And all the more so if we've made our name a public name and accept an invitation to answer questions before that public, as a representative of Jesus the only Christ.

I can't see anyone being accused of having a bad agenda if they agree whole-heartedly with this quote above and seeing the snare in the fear of men.

 2012/2/22 19:24









 Re:


"Put not your trust in Princes."


This isn't about Franklin. We're praying for the whole Graham family and have been for many years ... but I would just ask that we do a Search titled, "Santorum - Knights of Malta".

A scribd copy of a magizine may be a first choice.



Jesus did say, watch that you not be deceived, for many shall come saying I Am.



 2012/2/22 21:35
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4779


 Re:

I would like to point out a few things before I respectfully bow out of the conversation.

1. I can't pretend to know why Franklin Graham said what he said. He was certainly put on the spot by a left-leaning media station (whose slogan is "think progress" -- catering to a largely "progressive" or "liberal" audience). Many people regret certain things that are said when they are placed on the spot like this.

If anyone has ever had a job interview, they are asked questions that they aren't exactly prepared for. They give impromptu responses that are often less reflective of what it is that they believe. Similarly, it would be foolish to make a judgement call on a man's entire life and ministry based upon such an interview -- especially when it contradicts what that person might say when not put "on the spot" like that. Moreover, it might not be wise to conjure up insinuations and accusations about "twistings and turnings" based upon something from these sort of interviews.

2. Such arguments are inevitably raised during election cycles. Interestingly, it seems like I remember fewer such discussions in regard to the candidate(s) on the left (or their supporters) during the last presidential election cycle. I guess that it might be due to the obvious moral and spiritual deficiencies that are a part of a political platform that not only embraces things like abortion or homosexual activism, but actually encourages campaign promises of legislation on behalf of such issues.

3. I feel that many such conversations might be brought up because certain believers feel that other believers might be in the wrong if they support (or publicly support) a particular candidate for an office. In the past, individuals have raised issue about believers "bowing their knees" to the "systems of this world" when they vote.

Personally, I feel the liberty to voice my vote on election day. This has only been after constant prayer -- even in the face of voices that often loudly proclaim otherwise. Now, I wouldn't pretend that the candidate that I might vote for (or have voted for in the past) are "perfect."

However, I am not voting for an evangelist...or pastor...or some other spiritual office. Rather, it is merely a vote on which candidate that I think would be better for said position at this particular time.

In other elections (that center on policy propositions), I simply vote "yes" or "no" after prayerful consideration about how said policy proposition will effect my family or neighbors. If abortion were put up to a public vote, you can rest assured that I would share my conclusion on the matter through a vote in this country of my temporary citizenship.

Most of us have never had the opportunity to meet up with these elected representatives. Thus, if we are trying to make a determination about who we think would be the best candidate for a job, we are left with promises, campaign websites and the history of what is said and pushed by the candidate. Many people (including followers of Christ) feel that there are certain issues -- morally legislated issues -- that are more important than others.

For instance, the issue of abortion matters quite a bit to my wife and I. We find it extremely difficult to ignore -- even with our votes. Many believers (like brother Denny here at SermonIndex) have been highly vocal in regard to the issue. Others have worked in positions where they have had some sway on the issue via an individual basis.

Interestingly, many polls have indicated a major shift in public opinion in the United States over abortion. Whereas a majority of Americans during the 1990s supporter abortion in just about every circumstance (except partial birth abortion), a tide has turned to the point that a slight majority oppose the practice of abortion under most circumstances.

Now, we all know that America doesn't just have political problems. Christians understand that America -- like every other nation -- has SPIRITUAL problems. You can't "legislate" revival. You can't "legislate" the presence of God into a nation.

Despite this, we still live in the land of our temporary citizenship...and have certain responsibilities to our neighbors.

America has no king. America has no monarch that rules over the policies of a nation. Instead, the nation has a government of the PEOPLE that is implemented by the consent of the PEOPLE for the direction that the nation collectively (via majority or plurality) feels is best. The people choose from among themselves candidates to be elected as "representatives" who make the laws of this land. Choosing between candidates is not akin to the "lesser of two evils" insinuation. Rather, it is simply choosing which imperfect individual that you think represents what you think is the best direction (legislatively) for your family, neighbors and others in this land of your temporary citizenship.

Like I said, there are certain issues that are much more pressing for some people. My wife and I are much more concerned with abortion than our tax rate. We would feel more inclined to vote against a candidate that promises to push the goals of homosexual activists upon our children, schools, neighbors or community.

Now, I can't pretend to understand what motivated Franklin Graham's comments. However, after hearing them in this choppily-edited clip, he seemed to be slow to make a finite judgment call about President Obama's claim that he is a Christian.

At the same time, he was pressed about Governor Santurom and concluded that he was a "Christian." Now, we don't know if he was using the ambiguous definition of "Christian" that the world uses (usually as descriptive of anyone who follows the basics "secular" precepts of faith in Christ). And, of course, there are individuals who are labeled as "Catholics" who completely object to much of the non-Biblical aspects of Roman Catholic teaching. I have known believers -- even on this forum -- who say that they found Christ while still attending a Catholic congregation and continued until they were "led" to leave.

Still, I think that clarity could only be reached by actually sitting with or contacting Franklin Graham for clarity.

I have known individuals who refuse to listen to men like Ravenhill or Wilkerson because of their embrace of certain historic Pentecostal views. I have even known believers who have questioned their eternal "status" or legitimacy as a "man of God" as a result. I think that we should certainly be "slow to speak" in such a regard.

I will say this: I have noticed that there seems to be a much more anxious attempt by some to point out a deficiency of certain men on the "right" (like Rick Santorum, Newt Gingrich and Mitt Romney) because of their religious affiliations (and belonging to "churches" that are outside of what we know to be true representations of the Church). However, there were far less individuals (especially in the media) who openly or subtly questioned the religious association or affiliation of Senator Obama during the 2008 election in regard to his association with a certain minister and membership with a certain congregation that he attended for more than 20 years. Yes, pundits on the right made an issue of it, but it took quite some time before such questions were raised by the mainstream media.

Like I said, some of us feel the liberty to vote in elections. Most of us are obviously aware that we are not trying to "legislate" holiness into a nation. Most of us are aware that an election will not bring about a "revival." Again, we aren't voting for a "Pastor-in-Chief." During presidential elections, Americans simply decide between two or more imperfect candidates and the direction by which they publicly desire to take the nation -- from a national to local level.

Perhaps Franklin Graham played into a "trap" question and meandered to quickly in defense of a candidate based upon the "righteous-vs-unrighteous" issues that a self-proclaimed Catholic claims to support. Still, I think that it would be unwise to judge Graham by this statement. If it is offensive enough, I suggest that you can try and contact the man or his ministry about what he truly believes.

I hope that I don't offend anyone with my own thoughts on all of this. Many people have very strong opinions on the matter. I can't count how many times that well-meaning but what I feel to be misguided individuals "warned" me of "bowing down" to the "systems of this world" simply because I voted...or endorsed one candidate above another. It was even suggested that taking advantage of this opportunity to share my voice through a vote would eventually lead me to bow down to the Antichrist (as if that wasn't so totally ridiculous). Still, it shows just how deeply divisive the topic of "politics" can be on a website that is filled with believers from many different backgrounds that demonstrate differences in age, nationality, education and levels of maturity.

May the Lord guide each one of us as we remain desperate for Him.


_________________
Christopher

 2012/2/22 23:01Profile
rjennings
Member



Joined: 2006/2/26
Posts: 52
USA

 Re:

I have thoroughly enjoyed reviewing the different perspectives on this thread. After many years I am still amazed at how many who profess a conservative Christian faith and may even attend the same church, listen to the same sermons, and study the same scripture maintain different interpretations of foundational principles and their relevance in this world.

The reason we won't see other ministers of the Gospel give their position on candidates for election is they aren't putting themselves in the limelight to be asked. Does anyone truly believe Graham was blind-sided by those questions? I want to believe him to be much brighter than that. Whenever you volunteer to be the spokesman for evangelical Christianity this line of questioning comes with the territory. All that ask is as that spokesperson that you hold a line consistent with the faith that you represent otherwise step aside and allow another to boldly step forward.

I truly believe that most who frequent this site and are even represented on this thread appreciate the fact that we are beyond the point of mere politics rescuing our fine nation from ruin. This assembly of potential presidential candidates and milk toast Christian commentators such as Franklin is simply more evidence for what we already know.


_________________
Rick

 2012/2/23 0:57Profile





©2002-2024 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Revival to this Generation.
Privacy Policy