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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Some Quotations On The Biblical View Of Headcovering

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pilgrim777
Member



Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


 Re:

Well everyone, don't you think we are at an impasse?

Cjeanne says:

Quote:
This is about what PAUL intended, and I'm merely reflecting what I believe he intended.



And we graciously extend to you the freedom to believe that. And the other side is reflecting WHAT THEY BELIEVE HE INTENDED. Fair enough?

So, maybe we should call it a day. Seems obvious that we should.

The Lord continue to bless and keep everyone,
Pilgrim

 2012/2/10 22:47Profile
CJeanne
Member



Joined: 2009/9/27
Posts: 41


 Re:

Thank you for your nice response, learjet. I have a hard time getting what you intended but it's nice to know you didn't intend it the way I first read it.

It's true that there are difficulties with this passage that we don't encounter in many other parts of scripture, but it isn't the only difficult passage.

I'm convinced that God is allowing the Muslims to grow in population and in influence in America as part of His judgment against this nation. He's done the same in Europe already. It's so odd that even after 9/11 the Muslims are becoming MORE influential and even in a way popular in America. I have to see this as God's hand in judgment. The idea that any city in America is subjected to Islamic prayer over a PA system sets my teeth on edge. 9/11 was His wakeup call to us and we haven't heeded it. It's scary to just watch it all happen while the nation is doing nothing to repent before God and save ourselves.

I've many times thought that part of all this could be that because their women cover their heads God making them an example to us. They overdo it, so that if we did it as Paul requires it wouldn't be as extreme as what they do, but I've often worried that He's saying we are to cover at least in church and since we don't this is part of our judgment, to be overrun by a people whose women do cover their heads.

 2012/2/10 22:49Profile
CJeanne
Member



Joined: 2009/9/27
Posts: 41


 Re:

Pilgrim, RBanks was talking about his OWN opinions completely apart from what the scripture says and treating mine as my own rather than being about what Paul intended. Please go reread RBanks' post.

 2012/2/10 22:50Profile









 Re:

"And how DO you understand the fact that all the early churches (see Tertullian) and all the churches down to the 20th century required women to cover their heads?"


Just because they did it, it doesn't make it right?

A lie practised long enough becomes a truth to many and gets woven in their daily life.

Lets just part ways with this, my brain is simple. I don't know greek and hebrew, I just know the English language and the Holy Spirit. And the English rendering says that her hair is given her for a covering, it's her glory.

In todays world especially the Church, women are cutting their hair shorter, that tells me that the world has crept in and women are taking after the world, else why would they cut it? (I am not asking a question, just saying).

Sister I grew up in a Church that believed like you. I respect women who wear their Chapeau's and the one's that don't. Both have given messages in tongues and gave the interpretation and some had hats and others did not. I have no problem with women that want to wear a ballcap or women that don't. But I will admit, I greatly admire women who have beautiful flowing hair.


"I'm convinced that God is allowing the Muslims to grow in population and in influence in America as part of His judgment against this nation."

Ah, finally something we can agree on. I have had the same thoughts for sometime as well.

 2012/2/10 22:50









 Re:

Not to derail this but someone mentioned:

"I'm convinced that God is allowing the Muslims to grow in population and in influence in America as part of His judgment against this nation."

I feel the same thing about christendom.

In Christ -Jim

 2012/2/10 22:56
learjet
Member



Joined: 2010/4/19
Posts: 447


 Re:

Quote:
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For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. -John 3:16


Yes Lord, that's true!

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But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. -Matthew 6:33


Yes Lord, that's true!

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Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." -John 14:6


Yes Lord, that's true!

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This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus -Romans 3:22-24


Yes Lord, that's true!

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And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. -Romans 8:28


Yes Lord, that's true!

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I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. -Revelation 22:13


Yes Lord, that's true!

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But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all wickedness. -1 John 1:9


Yes Lord, that's true!

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Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” Matthew 19:26


Yes Lord, that's true!

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Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice and addressed the crowd: “Fellow Jews and all of you who live in Jerusalem, let me explain this to you; listen carefully to what I say. These people are not drunk, as you suppose. It’s only nine in the morning! 16 No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel" -Acts 2:14-16


Yes Lord, that's true!

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For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. -Ephesians 2:8-9


Yes Lord, that's true!

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For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the LORD, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future. -Jeremiah 29:11


Yes Lord, that's true!

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His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. -Revelation 19:12


Yes Lord, that's true!

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Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever. -Hebrews 13:8


Yes Lord, that's true!

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Then it happened, as they continued on and talked, that suddenly a chariot of fire appeared with horses of fire, and separated the two of them; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. -2 Kings 2:11


Yes Lord, that's true!

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But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. 4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonors his head. 5 But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head, for that is one and the same as if her head were shaved. -1 Corinthians 11:3-5






Again, sorry for the mis-communication, my point was we take the first 14 verses posted above at face value written by fishermen, for fishermen.

Why when we talk about 1 Cor 11 do we hold it to a different standard? Now it's time to bring in the theologians rather than just accepting what it says?

Hopefully, that is a bit more clear. :-)

 2012/2/10 23:03Profile
rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1330


 Re:

Hi CJ,
Thanks for finally posting to me after all this time. Remember you reference to me first and more than one time. I have decidedly to post to you since you posted to me. I will not comment on all your post but I would like to comment on some of it.

Quote-
He also gave me breasts and other parts of the body that He requires be covered up
-Quote

Of course God requires our nakedness to be covered up every since the fall of mankind. I see that you have studied on this issue a lot and have studied many of man’s interpretations of it but I do believe you would have to agree that there is no passage in the bible that God ever said that He gave women long breasts for a covering and a glory to her but when she comes into a place of worship she needs to cover them so she want dishonor her husband. No, No sister every since the fall of man our private parts are to be covered period in public.

I have never said that they didn’t use an artificial covering of some kind back then but the main thing I have said is what the scripture says (hair is given her for a covering} but you and those you agree with seem to have no problem adding words that are not written like “her hair also needs to be covered”. Hey and if you honestly believe that then I won’t hold that against you but hopefully you will not hold it against me for not reading what is not clearly there.

Hey sister CJ when you get to heaven and you get so close to the throne and if you happen to look off into the distance and see” oh rbanks” please know that I haven’t tried to be unkind to you sister.

Just know this also that I have to be convinced without a shadow of a doubt concerning any interpretation that goes beyond what is clearly written.

Blessings to you!

 2012/2/10 23:16Profile
pilgrim777
Member



Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


 Re:

CJeanne,

I know the tendency of our flesh is to be scared but the Lord will finish what He started in us. There is a much greater work that God needs to do in our hearts in order for us to handle the coming persecution and tribulation. Tribulation is the lot of the Church in 2/3 of the world today and that does not mean the Church is being judged in Iran, China, Vietnam and other countries.

We need to resist the fear and just press in to the Lord. The Lord may be allowing persecution, that is true, but many Muslims may be reached for Christ. I seriously doubt not covering is part of any judgement since it is not clear in the Word to large groups of Christians. That would not be fair of the Lord to put something so ambiguous in Scripture without 2 or 3 other "witnesses". Covering or not covering is not what God is displeased with. He is displeased with spiritual fornication with the world, Babylon, and that is why He is calling us out.

May the Lord bless you abundantly in Him and I pray you receive His peace and that He gives you grace to cast all your cares upon Him.

Pilgrim

 2012/2/10 23:39Profile
MaryJane
Member



Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Re:

by CJeanne on 2012/2/10 16:13:05

Thanks for your comment Mary Jane, of course I regard you as a sister although we disagree on this subject. That is never an issue. In my Christian life I'm surrounded by women who don't cover and think I'm wrong.

But as far as this being about who is right versus wrong, I don't look at it that way. It's about what the scripture means, it's about what Paul meant, it's about what God means, it's about Truth. When there is a contradiction between points of view, both can't be right. Of course if we can't resolve it we are still brothers and sisters in Christ, but this is not the kind of issue that is just about the individual conscience, it's about how God wants His people to behave in the churches, so I for one consider it very important that the truth be arrived at if at all possible.
_________________________

I think sister its time for me to completely step away from this topic for good. I see that we are at a point were continuing on can do no good. IF I were to suddenly say ok I will wear the veil because of all that you have said I would be going against what GOD has shown me and I would be actually dishonoring my husband who has prayed and studied this topic with me as well. So you believe you have understanding on the scripture as do I and I think we will just have to leave it to GOD. I trust He is faithful, HE has never failed me before and I don't suspect HE will now.
Please know that when I fellowship with other believers I do so with a clear conscious as I am sure you do to. I do not attempt to draw attention to myself, I dress very modestly, if I do not fully understand what is being shared I wait until I am home with my husband and seek HIS thoughts on the matter.

With that I will just say that I hope you see you in the other threads and God Bless you

maryjane

 2012/2/10 23:43Profile
CJeanne
Member



Joined: 2009/9/27
Posts: 41


 Re:

I didn't mean to be trying to impose my view on you, Mary Jane, I recognize that in many cases there is going to remain a disagreement among believers in Christ even after we've done our utmost to present a clear view of scripture.

I just wanted to say that I think it's important that we look at this as a question of truth even if we can't resolve it right now, because too often it's made a matter of someone being right and someone being wrong instead of a matter of what God said. That seemed important to me to say but maybe it would have been better not to say it.

But yes, perhaps we'll meet on other threads. I did take a look at the modesty thread but haven't yet felt led to post there.

Blessings in the Lord

 2012/2/10 23:59Profile





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