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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Is the denial of the eternal Sonship of Christ a damnable heresy?

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Joined: 2010/3/27
Posts: 49


Reeves didn't say that. He thought it.

 2012/1/14 22:48Profile


Oh No - not another 'mind or spirit reader'.

Normally, only those who hold to osas use the terms that he did - "rewards" and "well dones".

The non-osas folks just blurt out 'Hell' as quick as a stick and so do some mind or spirit readers. :D
I really liked your 1st post though. Maybe you're just getting tired like most of us today.

The LORD Bless and bring you rest & Joy!

Thank you again!!

 2012/1/14 22:59

Joined: 2010/3/27
Posts: 49


Yes, I am ready to turn in too. It has been a long day of Dogma Enforcement and Heretic Rebukement.

 2012/1/14 23:15Profile


PD, you do know why I laughed at your sign-on name, but maybe others didn't.

From "the urbandictionary" .com

"Prima Dogma" - The highest religious officials
The Pope is the prima dogma of Catholicism
Mohammed is the prima dogma of Islam
Buddha is the prima dogma of Buddhism

I could add a few more. :)

Thanks again for any light heartedness you've attempted to bring here today.


 2012/1/14 23:17

Joined: 2009/1/24
Posts: 453


Reeves makes a strong case for his doctrine, but he devotes an awful lot of energy to a doctrine that has no bearing at all on the Christian life. Our viewpoint on this teaching does not affect our standing with God.

The fact that people are hurling words like "blasphemy" and "antichrist" at each other suggests that God is sensitive about how man perceives Him, that He gets viscerally angry at people who have incorrect ideas about Him and that He will throw people in hell for coming down on the wrong side of the Eternal vs. Incarnational Sonship debate. This mentality comes from the spirit of organized religion, not of Christ.

Paul spent a lot of time correcting doctrinal errors, but nowhere does he suggest that incorrect theological opinions are sins against Deity. He refuted heresies because of the harm they did to those who held them. To Paul, the gospel was about being rightly related to God, not just having correct opinions about Him.

Wayne Kraus

 2012/1/14 23:34Profile

Joined: 2010/3/27
Posts: 49


I am Supreme Consulate General of the National Heresy Hunters Association, and I moonlight on the Christian hip-hop scene as Snoop Dogma Dogg.

 2012/1/14 23:41Profile


Thanks for cutting some slack, Wayneman. I know folks that are struggling with all facets of the Trinity, yet I know that they Love Him, and others.
He'll help us all, I'm sure.

Thanks to the posting of the alter-ego of another poster for taking on the heavy load of moonlighting our hip-hopping scene today.
Sure it's not moonshining? :)

GOD Bless us, everyone.

 2012/1/14 23:52

Joined: 2010/8/15
Posts: 272

 Re: Eternal Sonship

JIG, you said that you wanted bible verses to show the eternal sonship of Christ. Old Joe suggested you look at Colossians ch 1:12 -19, here it is.

Col 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

In whom do we have redemption? In his dear Son. Who is the image of the invisible God? His dear Son. By whom were all things created? By his dear Son. Who is before all things? His dear Son.

The Hebrews epistle says the same:

Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

In my last posting, I said that our eternal salvation in Him depends on this. Scripture:

Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Eph 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

How could we be adopted as children from the foundation of the world if He, the firstborn from the dead, was not from the beginning the Son?

As said before, John' gospel and letters make this all very clear. I mentioned before John ch 1: verses 14 &18. Here is the beginning of his first letter.

1Jn 1:2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)
1Jn 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

The eternal life WAS with the Father, and has been manifested to us in the Son. Our fellowship by the Holy Spirit is eternally with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ.

JIG, this is a serious matter to understand, and levity and joking are not appropriate.



 2012/1/15 3:37Profile

Joined: 2010/3/27
Posts: 49



Levity and joking are always appropriate when Christians brawl over theological abstractions, especially when you have PrimaDogma here, the One to whom God has bequeathed Total Truth, thus rendering all argumentation unnecessary.

This thread demonstrates two facts: 1) The Bible clearly teaches Eternal Sonship and 2) The Bible clearly teaches Incarnational Sonship. The religious take one half of a paradox and say, "This is Total Truth; anyone who disagrees with me is going to fry!"

That is a lie! It is only the ones who disagree with Me who are going to fry. The wrath of God will be revealed against all who fail to bow before My Theology.

 2012/1/15 8:08Profile



What you wrote is all true, but since it is a revealed doctrine do not expect JIG or her new "friend" to see it. The new friend is also a proponent of justification by works since it too 'appears' to be presented in scripture and has also been disputed throughout time.

Fools always mock at the high things of God because they cannot reach them. Best just to let JIG and her new friend play, this will be sorted out for them both at the end.

1 Corinthians 11:19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.


 2012/1/15 9:52

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