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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Is the denial of the eternal Sonship of Christ a damnable heresy?

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 Re:

Brother Tom wrote:

Quote:
and

......... denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ....

Denying the Eternal Sonship of Jesus is the one and same as denying God.....they are inseparable.



Who has "denied the only LORD GOD, 'and' our LORD Jesus Christ"?


Oh my.

What I do is download whole threads when I see that they're going to get heated. This way I can slowly read what each person is saying and take the time to understand where people are coming from. It's also best to look at all of the person's earlier posts since they've been a member, to fully understand what they believe.
I posted an old thread onto this thread twice as well.
We need to 'know' who we're dealing with - so please be careful who you 'damn', for your own sake, Brother.



See you when we See Him.

 2012/1/19 14:28
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708
Ca.

 Re:

Someone might ask in ignorance, if God is and was and always will be, who created God?

If God said, "let us create man in our image". The rest of scripture showing God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, it must be that "US and OUR" is the same. The Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit are eternal God.

To answer "someone's question"; If God created you then He is the only One in whom you have to deal with.

To not believe that the Son is eternal God, is heresy.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2012/1/19 15:31Profile









 Re:


Philip wrote: "To not believe that the Son is eternal God, is heresy."

Amen!

To not believe in The Three in One would also be heresy - I agree and always have.

1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.




Blessings of His Peace & the JOY of your salvation to you as well, Brother.

 2012/1/19 16:06
a-servant
Member



Joined: 2008/5/3
Posts: 435


 Re:

Not sure if it was mentioned earlier, but there is an actual solution to the 'almost-riddle' of : "this day have I begotten thee"

it has to be understood from the Hebraic concept of ‘son and father.’ Check out these 2:

The Mystery of Sonship
by Art Katz
www.enterhisrest.org/charismata/mystery_of_sonship.pdf

quote: "Jesus was the Son of God in a positional way by birth, but something was required in a moment of time that
made it actual, namely, a divine declaration or decree. Jesus had to come to the place where the Father could say:
I will surely tell of the decree of the Lord: He said to Me, “ Thou art My Son, today I have begotten Thee. ” (Psalm 2:7)."


and:

Attaining to Sonship by Art Katz
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=10819

Topic: Sonship
Description: Though God has many children, He has few "sons" in the Hebraic understanding of that word. And He waits for a certain consecration for that crisis "crossing over" before He can say over us, "This day, I have begotten thee."

 2012/1/19 19:32Profile









 Re:

a-servant, your caring is a Brotherly reaction.
I love Art. I know he was saved and I'd say it goes beyond just 'knowing' he was saved and is resting from his labors and enjoying the company of those that went before him, that labored just as well. You and the others that post his messages are blessed and I'm grateful that I found Art right here on SI yrs back. Extremely Grateful - also beyond words.

Thank you from my heart.

 2012/1/19 20:09









 Re:

Quote:
To not believe that the Son is eternal God, is heresy.



We need to tighten down the terminology on this one Philip.

To fail to believe that Jesus Christ is the ETERNAL Son of God is heresy. It is proper to say that Jesus Christ is the Son of God eternally. This JIG will not agree with. She will place Him as God but not the SON of God for all eternity past. She believes He became the Son of God at some point around His incarnation. Likewise with this belief she cannot believe that God the Father is the Father eternally. He could only have become God the Father at some point in time.

These beliefs are heresy because they have persons of the Godhead changing attributes, taking on a new character at some point in time, that prior to that time did not exist in them. It clearly opposes the scripture which states, "I the Lord change not". To be consistent with this verse, God the Father, and God the Son must be either ALWAYS the Father and the Son or NEVER be the Father and the Son. From the rest of scripture it is clear that the former is the case.

OJ

 2012/1/20 1:19









 Re:

One cannot deny the eternal Sonship of Christ without at the same time denying the eternal Fathership of God the Father. This is why it is damnable heresy.

1 John 2:22-23

OJ

 2012/1/20 2:02









 Re:

More untruths from you, Lee.

Those that do believe in the incarnational sonship belief do not deny the "everlasting father" nor do they deny the Father and His/The Son.



Isa 63:16 Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O LORD, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting.

The Son - Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.



They don't reject John 3:16 neither.

Goodness, even gotanswers.org doesn't damn them - though whomever defined the belief did not do a very scholarly job on it neither.

Back to the apologetic forums, where people can get into the original languages and the grammar and have debates with Scripture only.

Keep damning me in your heart, Lee and I'll keep praying for you. In His Love. Ann



Eta: If only you could show me from the Old Testament more of what you're trying to prove on what we 'all' believe is The Trinity / Elohim - it would answer more of the questions I've had, since you can't answer my original question to you on the tenses of those verses that puzzled me. Wish you had tried to answer this in a more Biblical fashion rather than just claiming what I believe and damning me for what you're claiming I believe. Sad thread.

 2012/1/20 2:18









 Re:

Quote:
Those that do believe in the incarnational sonship belief do not deny the "everlasting father" nor do they deny the Father and His/The Son.



By denying that Christ is the eternal everlasting Son you automatically must deny the everlasting Father. For to whom is He the everlasting Father if it is not the everlasting Son?

OJ

 2012/1/20 11:45
taco
Member



Joined: 2004/4/27
Posts: 211


 Re:

Isaiah refers to Christ as the Everlasting Father, who is he the Everlasting Father of?

 2012/1/20 12:08Profile





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