| Poster | Thread | Sree
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Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1953
| | Re: | | Quote:
True, there is perfect holiness in Christ for the believer, but there must also be a holy nature received from Him.
Are you talking about Justification here? If you are referring to only Justification then it is true. But our life does not stop with Justification, like the thief on the Cross(He died immediately after he was Justified). But we have a life to live on earth after Justification. So when youa are in santification phase you are not the same Blameless guy anymore.
Can you quote some verses to prove your above quote? I don't believe we are perfected or recieve perfect holiness when we are born again. We recieve it as we walk with Lord in our life by daily looking at the life of Jesus.
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Sreeram
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|  2011/12/19 15:14 | Profile |
| | Re: | | 1 Cor. 3:17, "If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are."
1 Cor. 6:19, "What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?"
How could I not be holy? I am the temple of God. |
| | 2011/12/19 18:16 | | Christinyou
Member
Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.
| | Re: | | Quote: """I don't believe we are perfected or recieve perfect holiness when we are born again."""
Colossians 1:25-29 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.
He is our only true sanctification, our perfection is truly in Christ, by being born again we can see the things of the kingdom and know we are holy because He is Holy.
Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
There is no sanctification without Christ in us, for God has made Him our sanctification and this is our labour.
1 Corinthians 1:2-3 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
Who has been made unto us sanctification?
1 Corinthians 1:29-31 That no flesh should glory in his presence. But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
In Christ: Phillip
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Phillip
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| | 2011/12/20 12:12 | Profile | Sree
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Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1953
| | Re: | | Brother, Dont you see the verses you are posting are against what you are quoting?
Quote:
warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we MAY present every man perfect in Christ Jesus
This is a hope that we will be presented prefect in Christ Jesus. Where does it say you are already perfect? Why is Paul giving us this hope if we are already perfect, there is no need for hope? If we are already pefect then where is the need for Warning, what is the need to teach every man?
Quote:
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot SEE the kingdom of God.
Here again Jesus is saying until we are born again we will not have hope of entering the Kingdom of God. So he is talking about the first phase that we need to enter to even have a hope (see Kingdom of God). But Jesus is not saying that born again is the only condition for entering the Kingdom of God and once entered you will be there irrespective of how you live.
You and brother Tuc are taking one or 2 verses out of context and trying to explain a lie which the Bible never agrees with.
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Sreeram
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| | 2011/12/20 12:35 | Profile | Christinyou
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Posts: 3710
Ca.
| | Re: | | Paul says this is and was a mystery, which is "NOW" revealed to His saints. "Christ in you the hope of glory": whom we preach? This is our perfection. If we are seated in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus, we cannot be in God's presense unless we are perfect. It is the Spirit of Christ rebirthed in us that makes us Holy, not what we do. "without the Spirit of Christ we are none of His". God is Holy and perfect and He cannot accept anything less in His Kingdom. Being born again we can now see the things of the kingdom. This is the mystery Paul preaches in all his epistles, "Christ in you the hope of glory". NOW, revealed, not future revelation but NOW. We are perfect in Spirit now, we are being made perfect by the Holy Spirit teaching our minds to Mind of Christ which Paul also says we now have. We will be made perfect on resurrection when our bodies will be changed to be as His glorious Body.
Christ in us is our only hope of glory.
In Christ, seated in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus before the Father perfect, becoming perfect and will be perfect or we cannot enter the Father's House where Jesus Christ is preparing for us a place, "many mansions". He will finish His work He has begun in us. In fact by faith we are already to recon ourselves already there.
Phillip
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Phillip
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| | 2011/12/20 13:50 | Profile | Sree
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Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1953
| | Re: | | Quote:
God is Holy and perfect and He cannot accept anything less in His Kingdom.
or we cannot enter the Father's House where Jesus Christ is preparing for us a place,
the Holy Spirit teaching our minds to Mind of Christ which Paul also says we now have.
Good that you atleast accepted this, If we are sinners we cannot inherit the kingdom of God because we are not perfect or Holy. And God cannot accept anything below his perfect standard. When we are born again we confess our past sins and God forgives us and looks at us like a person who has not sinned. This is true and it is called Justification.
So now that we are Justified, if God is not going to look us at all as we are prefect (already) then why has he given us the Holy Spirit to teach us the way of Jesus? If there is nothing we have to do after Justification then why should we learn the life of Jesus from Holy Spirit.
It is beacuse God wants us to live like Jesus, he has enabled us with Holy Spirit to be Christlike. We are accountable for everytime we fall short of Christlikeness.
1 John 2 -1 :- My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;
If God is not looking into our life after we are Justified then why do we need this Advocate for?
It is this advocate who pleads for us when we fall short of his Glory everyday to get us back on track.
So growth in Christ is to learn more about him from Holy Spirit and apply it in our life to Mature in Christ.
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Sreeram
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| | 2011/12/20 15:08 | Profile | Christinyou
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Posts: 3710
Ca.
| | Re: | | Our old man mind is what needs to be renewed and is ongoing by the Holy Spirit that dwells in our soulish part, mind, will and emotions. This is sanctification being done by the justification of Christ now being our Spirit in which by the Spirit of Christ we are perfect because He is perfect. Our old man spirit was ruled by satan and our minds were abused and missused and never able to attain perfection and must be renewed by the Holy Spirit to the mind of Christ. The incorruptable Seed of the Father, The living Word Himself is now our perfection, which is our new birthing, "It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me", by His Spirit we are perfect in Spirit and becoming perfect in our soulish/mind by the Father sending the Holy Spirit to teach us in ongoing sanctification all that Jesus is that is in us, He prayed the Father that the Holy Spirit would be sent to us to remind us of all He is and says. For now we groan and our hope is on our newness of Life, perfect before the Father, now in Spirit by the Spirit of Christ birthed in us and becoming perfect by the Mind of Christ, which I have not attained yet, but I do press on in hope for the upward calling of God in Christ Jesus that my mind will some day be perfect just like the Mind of Christ. My groaning is the loudest in this flesh body I still live in and until it is planted in the ground or changed in the twinkling of an eye, My flesh will never produce fruit acceptable to the Father, because we are all still in Adam in the Flesh, that is why this corn of wheat can still die and be planted in the ground and on resurrection day it will no longer be earth bound flesh but a heavenly body like the body of Jesus Christ, then perfect.
All I can do with this body now is present it as a living sacridice to God, which is my reasonable spiritual service and labour in Christ.
So I am perfect in Spirit, becoming perfect in soul/mind and will be perfect on resurrection day, a complete offspring of God, not the first born Son, but a second born son of God into the body of Christ.
In Christ: Phillip
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Phillip
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| | 2011/12/20 15:52 | Profile | Sree
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Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1953
| | Re: | | Quote:
Our old man mind is what needs to be renewed and is ongoing by the Holy Spirit that dwells in our soulish part, mind, will and emotions.
The old man cannot be renewed. He is crucified with Jesus. The old man is dead.
Romans 6:4-
Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also SHOULD WALK in newness of life.
5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that OUR OLD MAN was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we SHOULD no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin.
So who is this old man? He is a man who was freely opening his house (our body and soul) for the desires of Flesh. Lets take one desire Adultery. Now when we are born again we have a New Man, and the old man is crucified. This New Man knows that the desire of Flesh to do adultery is evil and against the word of God. So when the thief of adultery comes he does not open the door but fights against the thief. Now to win against the thief this new man needs strength. He gets it from Holy Spirit. Once the new Man overcomes the thief(by winning all the time), the Holy Spirit will show the new man other desires of Flesh that are inside us that needs to be thrown out, for example anger. So this cycle continues. And it is called Sanctification, where we become more Christ like each and every day. It is not a one day process.
Sanctification is a very important process, we are all in different stages of it. But we should all have one hope, when Jesus comes back we will be like him fully sanctified (1 John 3-9). If we do not seek to be Sanctified saying we are already perfect and God will not look at me anymore, then we are deceiving ourselves. We are not saved if we are not Sanctified, because Sanctification is a way by which we are Saved from the Power of Sin.
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Sreeram
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| | 2011/12/21 9:16 | Profile | murrcolr
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Joined: 2007/4/25
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Scotland, UK
| | Re: | | Quote: there is perfect holiness in Christ for the believer, but there must also be a holy nature received from Him.
1 Cor. 1:30 By His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption.
Heb. 10:10-14 By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. And every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can
never take away sins; but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, sat down at the right hand of God, waiting from that time onward until His enemies be made a footstool for His feet. For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.
Our postion in Christ.... We have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ by one offering He(Christ)has perfected for all time those who are sanctified....
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Colin Murray
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| | 2011/12/22 3:07 | Profile | Sree
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Posts: 1953
| | Re: | | Quote:
Our postion in Christ.... We have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ by one offering He(Christ)has perfected for all time those who are sanctified....
1 Cor 1:30, should be seen with the context. In the context in which it is said, it means Christ is the source of our Wisdom from God, Righteousness, Sanctification and Redemption. Read it along with the scriptures before it, you will understand what I meant.
We are not Sanctified already, Sanctification is a daily process. We are in the process of Sanctification. When we are Sanctified (during his second coming) we will be perfect.
1 Peter 5-10:-After you have suffered for a little while, the God of all grace, who called you to His eternal glory in Christ, WILL Himself perfect, confirm, strengthen and establish you.
If we are already perfected then where is the need to Perfect us gain? This is not the only Scripture that I can quote, this is the scripture that God showed me today. The sufferring that Peter talks here is the Sanctification process. If you read 1 Peter 4 carefully, you will understand this process.
Also in my previous post I have explained Sanctification clearly.
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Sreeram
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| | 2011/12/22 10:15 | Profile |
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