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DEADn
Member



Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1395
Lakeland FL

 Re:

Baldmtnman

I may or may not do anything with the Quiverfull movement. Actually, if I write anything about it it would be on the concept of it but that requires some reading on my part.

From what I understand of the professor, he wants us to explain our thoughts. So, if we bring something up he wants to know why. "Why" is that so important? type of concept.

i.e. if I start off using the garden of Eden and the argument of whether Eve is equal with Adam or whether she is less than Adam my argument needs to be back up with a why is that so important?

If I touch on the Quiverfull concept and say whether it is bad or good he wants to know why and why should anybody care about it.

I think the worst part of this whole paper is finding the right stuff to read to construct the right arguments. Some of the links posted have been helpful in this effort. It is just a matter of funneling it through my mind and putting it on paper and having it make sense. This things is due 11/23.


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John

 2011/11/10 8:20Profile
DEADn
Member



Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1395
Lakeland FL

 Re:

baldmtnman

I would agree that NLQ is rooted in much bitterness. In fact the site is really an athiest site as well. I don't necessarily read that site alot but I have come across some blogs of those who have been raised in the 'scene'. Many of them have become feminists and athiest. Yet the one thing I don't read about too much is the boys. It seems that it is the girls who have issues. I liken it to teenagers who think they know it all and can't get their way so they runaway from home because they can't get their way. On the other hand, a person always has to give those people and open ear to really understand who are they angry with? Is it just rigid rules in certain families they couldn't cope with so they got out and pointed the finger back at their family unjustly? It usually happens when someone feels they have been burned especially within the church.

In the end what my focus is going to be on, at least intially with my paper, is feminism and fundamentalists theology. I think both sides have flaws personally. One side wants to reinterpret things to their own lusts and the other side sometimes wants to use literalness for a subtle power in the Name of God yet in the end who is more truthful in their stance? Or is any side more truthful.

I am off to spent a major of this day doing research on this. I need inspiration of the Holy Spirit to guide me through this

take care
John


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John

 2011/11/10 8:56Profile
Baldmtnman
Member



Joined: 2007/4/16
Posts: 7
Washington State

 Re:

John,

I will pray that the Lord gives you direction and wisdom in your endeavor.

I have some writing on my blog that may or may not be helpful to you. I have written on egalitarianism to some extent. Of course that's a dangerous subject because once you venture into Scriptural truth that flies in the face of the feminism within the modern church; you set yourself up as a target. Personal attacks are quick to follow. The fact is; they are forced into personal attacks because of the lack of Biblical basis for their beliefs.

I would remind you that nowhere in Scriptural theology is the woman ever considered inferior. That is an egalitarian tactic and a smoke screen. Just because someone is submissive in position and/or role has no bearing on their worth. Women are every bit as important as the man and her role is at least as important.

Its like trying to determine who is more important in battle: the General guiding the battle or the soldier doing the fighting. They fill different roles and positional authority but neither is more or less important to the success of the mission.

It's never been about worth. But because of the rebellion inherent in the modern feminization of the church the use of the old "God never meant for me to be a doormat" argument is commonplace. Of course they are correct. God didn't intend anything of the sort, but then again, neither does any of the advocates of the traditional and Biblical familial roles. And any man who is determined to undermine the value of the woman or belittle her in any way has abandoned the Scriptural position and the traditional view.

As for the reason for the seemingly higher exodus of girls from the Quiverfull faith I don't know the answer and I would be interested to hear what you find on the subject. I will say that there are detractors from every group, religion, cult, social group, belief, or ideology. I would venture to say that the number of people, boy or girl, who cast off what they were taught within the Quiverfull faith is likely much lower than others. I have known a few but very few.

God bless,
Jim
Livingelect.com


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Jim

 2011/11/10 17:14Profile
DEADn
Member



Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1395
Lakeland FL

 Re:

http://www.christianpost.com/news/michelle-duggar-suffers-miscarriage-in-second-trimester-64462/

First, I am not sure why I go to this site for some news but I do it. I find some of the stories on this site really lame but this story perked my interest.

What is the end result of this whole thing? Are these folks really balanced in their God view of having kids? Does a person come up with 'excuses' as to why this situation happened with them? Read the article to see what what I am referring to.

I don't know anything about their show. I only know of them from being introduced to this quiverful things which I had hear from and NPR interview so I see this whole thing from an outsider point of view to an extent.
Maybe I struggle with my own bias in this situation as well but my point for posting is how do people in this situation come up with explanations to explain why 'God' allowed this to happen vs if reality agrees or actually says something else to explain this.

DOes this make sense?

side note- sometimes I wonder if I am going through a growing pain inside, maybe a little crisis of conscience with God in answering certain questions.


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John

 2011/12/9 8:40Profile
dietolive
Member



Joined: 2007/6/29
Posts: 342


 Re: The Duggar's Losing Their Littleone

Dear DEADn,

The Duggars are definitely NOT balanced in their view of God and having children. They apparently are willing to receive at His hand without hindrance whatever the Lord pleases.

Did you read my previous post in this Thread, and if so, what are your specific thoughts on the Scriptures presented and the few points made?

I think the ultimate answer to your questions are to be found not in opinions or anecdotes. These can certainly be helpful for sure, but our search for the Truth must always finally come to the Word of God as the ultimate authority in all matters of life and death.

So, what saith the relevant Scriptures? How do you read them?

Be well,
Doug

 2011/12/9 9:30Profile
DEADn
Member



Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1395
Lakeland FL

 Re:

I have read your previous post and honestly I am not really sure how to respond to it. My thoughts are really all over the place in regards to it and it might make for a crazy read in the end.

"It is generally understood by Quiverfull families that the same God who sent the blessing of the child, will likewise send the necessary provision. Our Heavenly Father "owns the cattle on a thousand hills", and our Lord Jesus commanded us to "have faith", and not to "worry", but to even trust our Heavenly Father for "our daily bread." "

Does this show itself to be really true or wishful thinking? I wonder how many families are on government help? Is that provision from God? It could to a point but then one has to ask-if something be of God it would first build faith in the individual and then it would show as a sign to others. Government help doesn't show as a sign to others that this is God providing. That is my opinion.



"Psalms 127:4 - What does it mean that children are like arrows in a warrior's quiver? It means that well-trained children are lethal weapons in the Father's and Mother's hands for God. The implication is: The more arrows a warrior has, the more enemies he can shoot; ergo: the more children, the better for the Kingdom of God.
Psalms 127:5 - What does it mean that a man's children will speak with the enemy? It means that they will grow up to fight against the enemies of God's Kingdom."

What exactly does this mean in this day? Are we to take every word here as fundamental in this? How is it supposed to be applied if we are to take this as it is written?
Let's be practical otherwise we end up in wishful thinking which serves only to disillusion hearts and minds.




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John

 2011/12/9 15:08Profile
dietolive
Member



Joined: 2007/6/29
Posts: 342


 Re: DEADn

Dear Brother,

You said:
"Does this show itself to be really true or wishful thinking?"

What about this?
"I would think the true questions here are these: Are Christians willing to be HARD workers, and are they willing to have only what God deems absolutely necessary, (shelter, food and clothing?) I guess we, (especially in the West), are used to a certain standard of living, but there may be certain aspects of our standard of living that our Heavenly Father may not think are essential. Are we willing to forgo some of these things to have more "blessings" from God, should He still desire to send them to us?"

You wrote:
"Let's be practical otherwise we end up in wishful thinking which serves only to disillusion hearts and minds."

You ask fair questions, and there are fair answers. However, before I try to convey them, may I humbly ask you two questions first?

1. What was your motivation in coming to Christ?

2. What is your supreme goal in this life in the meantime?

What do you think dear Brother?

 2011/12/9 15:20Profile
DEADn
Member



Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1395
Lakeland FL

 Re:

"I would think the true questions here are these: Are Christians willing to be HARD workers, and are they willing to have only what God deems absolutely necessary, (shelter, food and clothing?) I guess we, (especially in the West), are used to a certain standard of living, but there may be certain aspects of our standard of living that our Heavenly Father may not think are essential. Are we willing to forgo some of these things to have more "blessings" from God, should He still desire to send them to us?"

I can tell you that I can do without some things but as you said, in the west we are used to a standard of living. I can adapt to seemingly any situation. Parents spoil kids too much with things these days. I think the less a kid has the more the kid will learns for life. Your last sentence could have some practicality to it but at the same time, does it mean if a womens womb is still fertile she should continue having kids until it closes or something tragic happens? Such as this Duggars thing?



"1. What was your motivation in coming to Christ? "

It was to repent of sin and yet at the time I was still igonorant of it a bit. I can tell you that in the days that followed when I opened up a bible and began reading I got more convicted inside and began studying it even more even to the point of memorizing verses and walking them out in my life. Then I began to understand the condition of man but I had to fight religiousity at the same time- if that makes sense?

2. What is your supreme goal in this life in the meantime?

I really don't know if I have a supreme goal in this life. Maybe it can be summed up like this- Parts of it are to be a friend to those who need a friend, to give hope to those who need it, to love my wife as she needs it and to work as my work ethic pushes me to because it is who I am inside. Any of that make sense? These are the things that I find that come out in me in various ways all the time and it is a part of what life seems to be all about in the end. God is woven within all of these things.


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John

 2011/12/9 15:50Profile
dietolive
Member



Joined: 2007/6/29
Posts: 342


 Re:

Hi Brother,
Quote:
"Your last sentence could have some practicality to it but at the same time, does it mean if a womens womb is still fertile she should continue having kids until it closes or something tragic happens?"

I couldn't rightly call God taking a child in a miscarriage tragic, in the sense of being a "mistake", if the father and mother were seeking God's will in the matter, and like Job of old, were trusting Him in the giving of that life, as well as the taking of it away.

Good answers to the questions, (and there are no exact answers to such questions anyway.) As a foundation, I just wanted us to think about what this is all about.

I think this way dear Brother.

1. What was your motivation in coming to Christ?

I believed God's supernatural promise to me, that by faith in Christ Jesus and His shed blood for me, I would be able to escape the wrath to come. By God's grace I still believe.

2. What is your supreme goal in this life in the meantime?

My supreme goal in life is to live always and only for Him who died for me. By God's grace, I still seek to obey His word in everything.

Therefore,

Is it not "practical" for one to trust God's promise for the salvation of our souls?

Is it not "practical" to love God with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength, or in a word, to love Him with our whole body?

I want to encourage you dear Brother, that if it is practical in both regards, then it is also practical in ALL regards.

There is no part of our lives where Christ does not claim sovereignty or does not seek to be glorfied thereby. And there is nothing that we can obediently do for His glory, that will in anywise extinguish or deplete the grace of His great and precious promises He has given to us:

"Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?

(For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.

But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." Matthew 6:31-33


It would seem foolish to Obey God First, and then work for your necessities, but this is the Power and Wisdom of God in the midst of this world.

Believe His promises dear Brother, for all things are possible to him who believes, even trusting God with the grace of life.

Be well in Him Who Died that You might LIVE.
Doug

 2011/12/9 17:19Profile
DEADn
Member



Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1395
Lakeland FL

 Re:

I go back to my original post about the Duggars. Are they a family that any general christian family should follow? Maybe I shouldn't ask such a question but yet apparently they have this spotlight because of their 'doctrine' about having as many kids as 'God' wants them to and they base that soley on Mrs Duggars ability to have kids. Just gets under my skin and maybe it shouldn't. Maybe I should leave this whole thing alone yet I realize down the road it will come up and I will have to either listen to a story about it or be confronted with it. I think this happens to most christians yet it is the kind of thing that irritates me to know end. Do I have a root of bitterness growing as a result? Maybe I need to have my heart searched in this matter..........


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John

 2011/12/9 22:32Profile





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