| Re: rainydaygirl|
"What if I say to you that I have prayed and searched out Gods will in this. What if I said that I have prayed and asked my husband to do so also. What if I say to you that we have searched the Bible for understanding and yet we do not feel the Lord leading us to keep to this practice. What would you say to me and to my husband?"
I appreciate you taking the time to write about where you are, and how you got there.
If you have carefully read Brother Atnip's article, as well as all the subsequent arguments in favor of this practice, and still do not believe, I would ask you to please go now to page 5 in this Thread, and read the third post from the bottom.
God bless you and your husband.
Be well in the Lord,
| 2011/10/26 17:23||Profile|
| Re: makrothumia - Extremes to avoid in this discussion|
"It is important to remember that taking an argument to an extreme in order to make it appear absurd falls short of wholesome communication."
Thank for taking the time to write your post. It is much appreciated in the Lord.
| 2011/10/26 17:25||Profile|
| Re: ginnyrose - Att. Blaine|
"James 2:14-26 NASB:
14 What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?
I shared these verses for your consideration although I am not certain it will minister to you but it may to someone else."
This truth is certainly a vital part of the "true grace, wherein we stand." May the Church as a whole come to see this.
Thank you for sharing this dear Sister.
| 2011/10/26 17:30||Profile|
| Re: The persecuted church|
I want the record to show that I have not initiated this discussion regarding the persecuted. But I am compelled to respond as some posters have linked the head covering to the persecuted church.
In a nut shell those who suffer for Christ have far more important things to worry about than the head covering. Namely are they going to survive the day. The women who are imprisoned are far more concerned about maintaing a testimony of Christ than covering their head. Why was Asia Bibi imprisoned? It was because she gave a bold testimony of Christ and not because of the head covering. Granted the culture of the country require them to wear the head covering, but not as a binding New Covenant.t command.
I read profiless this week of two sisters who were martyred in Eritrea. They were imprisoned in shipping containers. They subcombed to malaria and dysentary. They were promised medical treatment if they would recant their faith in Christ. They did not deny him and passed into glory. My point. They were without a head covering. They stood for Jesus. Jesus was their covering.
Ginny quoted the faith and deeds verses out of James. The context of those verses is loving our neighbor, not the head covering. James says in the first chapter that religion that God accepts as pure and faultless is to look after widows and orphans and keep one's self from being polluted by the workd. These are heart matters of faith.
This will be my last post in this thread. I have tried to reason from grace, love, and faith. But these are despised in this forum. Religion and legalism rule here and I cannot continue speaking to hearts that want bondage. Thus I will seek those who love the grace and freedom of Jesus.
Any saint who believes such and is a follower of Jesus, I welcome your fellowship. My email is in my profile. To the legalist and religionist may you find your yoke easy in Christ. For right now I sense you are under oppression.
| 2011/10/26 17:32|
| Re: sarahsdream|
"...why are we discussing this?"
Thanks for taking the time to write. This is taken from page 6 of this Tread, the second post down:
"I have not taken time to answer the questions of some, or to correct the arguments of others, because I was trying to force anyone to believe anything. Rather, I have been writing for the seeking soul; for the one who really is questioning things and is actually open to hear the answers, (if there were any), for all the myriad reasons that the modern western Church gives for departing from the Headcovering practice.
Our brothers and sisters from centuries past, the vast majority of the Church for the past two thousand years who have followed the apostle's Headcovering tradition, are gone. They cannot answer for themselves."
| 2011/10/26 17:33||Profile|
| Re: |
I didnt spot it the first time you replied and I would have corrected you then but its" Dear brother" .lol
Thanks for your thoughtful replies and analogies.
In Christ their are neither male or female.The veil is rent, all freely go in,we are all priests.
I cant recall male and female priests in the word but just priests.
Later in the chapter Paul makes it clear that christians that have taken the bread and wine incorrect way have become sick.Their is a kind of spiritual mechanics going on and the consequence is sickness.
Their is no such effects of any kind when it comes to head covering and their would have to be a universal effect if it was a church rule or an appostolic command or indeed a sin.
I have a feeling that the headship of the man over the women not the cloth covering is important when it comes to prayer and prophesy by women and the headship of the man under christ.Why is it important?,my guess is that if we are not in proper headship our pray and prophesy can be influenced by Satan.I think if we are not in proper headship the functionality of pray and prophesy is effected.I think that a women who do not wear a cloth but are in right relationship/headship edify the church properly.
The problem I see is that if the Church leadership teach that headcovering is nessacary then all women who dont use the cloth will be excluded in part or total from what God has for them in the church.This outcome would be a nonsense.Thanks Doug
Your brother..... Staff
| 2011/10/26 18:25||Profile|
| Re: |
Very good word, staff.
Martyr, sad to see you go. I agree with what you say. It is very sad. Those that are imprisoned are not even thinking about head coverings.
| 2011/10/26 19:31||Profile|
| Re: |
Doug, do you belong to a fellowship like makrothumia, where it is acceptable whether sisters wear a head covering or not? Would you belong to such a fellowship?
| 2011/10/26 21:32||Profile|
| Re: staff|
I apologize about that! I don't know where I picked up the "sister". Very sorry!
"In Christ their are neither male or female."
Yes. Our salvation is the same, whether we are male or female. Being one or the other does not affect our personal salvation in Christ.
"For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:26
"The veil is rent, all freely go in,we are all priests."
No. The veil, that is to say "Christ's flesh" has been rent for us, but we all do not freely go in. We Must come with the Blood:
"But into the [Temple] went the high priest alone once every year, NOT without blood..." Hebrews 9:7
"Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the BLOOD of Jesus,
By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
And having an high priest over the house of God;
Let us draw near with a TRUE heart in full assurance of FAITH, having our hearts sprinkled [WITH THE BLOOD] from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water." Hebrews 10:19-22
"I cant recall male and female priests in the word but just priests."
Yes. Sisters are priests now too. They have full access to the Heavenly Temple and to the throne of God's grace.
However, the implication of your statement seems to imply that you don't believe that men and women are to have different functions in the Body of Christ today, while we are still in this life. Men and women, though both equally a part of the one "Seed" of Abraham (see back to Galatians 3), are yet given different commandments in the New Testament. Don't you see? Saying that Paul saw no functional difference between men and women and yet gave them different functional commandments would itself be nonsense.
"Their is no such effects of any kind when it comes to head covering and their would have to be a universal effect if it was a church rule or an appostolic command or indeed a sin."
I think your conjecture here misses the point. Does there need to be some temporal, visual punishment for a spiritual principle to be true? Of course not. You ought to know that Paul already did tell us there was a consequence for failing to properly represent our Head before men and the angels: The dishonour; the embarrassment of our Lord and Master Jesus Christ, presumably before His enemies: Satan and the other fallen angels.
Our Lord takes the shame well though, doesn't He? Through thick and thin, and in all the ways we may fail Him, "His mercy is new every morning."
"I have a feeling that the headship of the man over the women not the cloth covering is important when it comes to prayer and prophesy by women and the headship of the man under christ.Why is it important?,my guess is that if we are not in proper headship our pray and prophesy can be influenced by Satan.I think if we are not in proper headship the functionality of pray and prophesy is effected.I think that a women who do not wear a cloth but are in right relationship/headship edify the church properly."
There is a lot of conjecture here. Accepting what the apostle actually told us, instead of dismissing his inspired instructions and his inspired reasons for them, would be a much wiser course of action, in my opinion.
"The problem I see is that if the Church leadership teach that headcovering is nessacary then all women who dont use the cloth will be excluded in part or total from what God has for them in the church."
You worry about a conjecture that you have conjured up in your own mind. God doesn't work according to our notion of things. His way is not "our way", and that is the point. I hope many do see this very important point, but one cannot see what one does not know.
I trust that the ones suffering and imprisoned for our Lord today have made the ultimate decision to obey everything in God's word according to the light they have, even if they think doing so would cause them hardship. God bless them for their courage in doing so. Their faithfulness animates courage in some of our hearts in the West as well.
Be well and thanks for reading,
| 2011/10/26 22:05||Profile|
| Re: Extremes to avoid in this discussion|
Thank you for your post. I can see why you are an Elder. The wisdom of your church fellowship is refreshing.
I know that I started the questioning of this issue from the original post put on from Greg. My only intention was that we should be open to question and discuss issues like this, as they are not as clear cut as some would have us believe.
I think the experience of the sisters in your fellowship bears this out. If it were a clear cut issue there would not such diversity of practice!
Unfortunately some do not want to allow us the liberty of coming to our own convictions on questionable issues and insist that we conform to their conviction.
So I say to us all, please let us not argue any more. Discuss with openess and grace, but please do not put down and belittle those who differ from you on this issue.
If your conviction is to cover your head, then it would be a sin for you not to. On the other hand do not cover your head if you are not convinved on this, but are just following a church custom. Let peace and liberty rule, we each are accountable to our own Master and not to another.
Who are you to judge another's servant? To his own Master he stands or falls. (Romans 14:4).
| 2011/10/27 5:53||Profile|