| Re: |
I wonder if Paul was using the hair thing to show them what they were doing wrong in not honoring our ultimate Head, which is Christ. He then goes to communion in the same way. If there is no Law or Law, uncircumcision or circumcision in Christ no female or male, Jew or Gentile, why would Paul then bring the Law back to the surface and use it as righteousness, when in all other places Paul uses Christ as our righteousness especially plain and simple; 1 Cor 1: 30 and Ga 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
Ga 5:11 And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased.
Ga 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
And; Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
How could hair length give way to the making us righteousness in any way before God in Christ. I believe that a woman with long hair is beautiful, but no contempt for short hair. I believe a man looks funny with long hair but no contempt for it and especially not making either a reason for salvation or righteousness, that is now Christ who is our covering and Head and our righteousness. I take communion out of Love and rememberance of the body and blood of Jesus Christ who gave Himself for me a sinner.
In Christ: Phillip
| 2011/10/22 12:19||Profile|
| Re: |
"How could hair length give way to the making us righteousness in any way before God in Christ. I believe that a woman with long hair is beautiful, but no contempt for short hair. I believe a man looks funny with long hair but no contempt for it and especially not making either a reason for salvation or righteousness, that is now Christ who is our covering and Head and our righteousness. I take communion out of Love and rememberance of the body and blood of Jesus Christ who gave Himself for me a sinner."
If the hair is an non-issue why bother to spend so many words on talking about a non-essential? Poor hermeneutics, IMO.
| 2011/10/22 13:06||Profile|
| Re: |
"""If the hair is an non-issue why bother to spend so many words on talking about a non-essential? Poor hermeneutics, IMO."""
That is exactly what I am trying to say, but it does take words as Paul wrote.
IN Christ: Phillip
| 2011/10/22 13:11||Profile|
| Re: Given Her for a Covering by Mike Atnip|
God always makes a separation as the shepherd separates sheep and goats. He makes that separation among His people by testing them by giving them a very small commandment. It may not be a sin leading to death if someone disobeys that commandment. But His purpose is accomplished. The invisible line is drawn. The 10000 Israelites who drank water at the command of the Lord did not realize that they were being tested by God. The way 9700 Israelites drank water was not a sin. But they missed an opportunity to become a part of Gods choice army. I believe God still makes that separation among His people. It is my opinion that He does that by seeing peoples heart as to how they consider and obey the small, small commandment in His word. I am convinced that it those who take seriously even the small commandments whom the Lord would use to fight His battles and to accomplish His purpose. Those who have ears to hear let them hear.
| 2011/10/25 2:14||Profile|
| Re: El-Bethel|
El-Bethel - you write "I am convinced that it those who take seriously even the small commandments whom the Lord would use to fight His battles and to accomplish His purpose".
I think no one would disagree with that....BUT what is being debated is if this IS commanded by the Lord!
You have made the mistake of assuming that your interpretation is correct and anyone who questions it has a wrong motive. Maybe people just want to know what is the truth, rather than being told if they don't conform to a particular 'custom' they are being disobedient!
| 2011/10/25 6:18||Profile|
| Re: |
Hi Hey dav,
I have to agree that head coverings are not a commandment of the lord.I find it hard to believe that Paul who fought against the circumsion group would say this was a commandment either.The principle of headship is important and also the effect improper headship has on prayer and prophesy,yours staff
| 2011/10/25 8:07||Profile|
| Re: |
I think Carter Conlin put this and and some of the other threads in perspective when he preached in Atlanta. I would urge anyone to listen to the message. It puts things in perspective about what is important. Like loving God and loving our neighbor.
| 2011/10/25 8:15|
| Re: The Headcovering|
Dear Brothers and Sisters,
1. Some have written that the Headcovering was only the hair.
If you have read Brother Atnip with an open heart in true "love", (ready therefore to "believe all things", come what may), and yet continue with such an opinion, than I fear you must continue in it still.
If you have studied the earliest Christians after the apostles, and yet believe that they somehow all changed the apostle's teaching from "hair" to a cloth covering all in unison, and all at the same time, and you yet continue with the opinion that it was just "hair", than I greatly fear that you must continue in it still.
2. Some have written that Paul couldn't have meant what he seems to be saying here, because it would be an external requirement, and Paul was supposedly against external requirements.
Paul was against requiring the external requirements of the Old Covenant, not of the New. Recall if you will, that our Lord gave the apostles "binding" authority on earth. The apostles then established the Church, "binding", (or "requiring") such things as they were perfectly led to, by the Holy Spirit. This Apostolic practice handed down to us in the Holy Scriptures, is only one such example.
3. Some have written that the Headcovering commandment is divisive, implying that even bringing it up is contrary to the Spirit of Love. But one will perhaps say to me, "Brother Conlon does not accept the Headcovering, and we know he is full of the love of, and is used mightily of God."
Those who invoke the name of anyone other than Jesus and his apostles as some kind of proof of something, expose themselves as possessing a "divisive", "denominational" spirit. I urge you to abandon all such thinking. The apostle warns against those "who compare themselves, by themselves." No, if a teacher is wrong in something, than we must still follow the clear words of Jesus and His apostles...
And besides all this: How do you know that all such teachers, (who currently do not teach and practice the Headcovering), never will?
4. To the Reader who is seeking and hungering for God's righteousness with all of his or her heart:
God bless you, and keep you in His Way. Do not let ANYONE cause you to depart from it, neither to the left hand, nor to the right. Fill yourself with all the fullness of God: in all His Love, and in all His Wisdom, which only is found perfectly in the very words of Jesus and His apostles.
I give thanks to God for every Prophet, Evangelist, Teacher and Pastor in the Church today, for they are good gifts from the Father of heaven, who help us in the Way. I know that we all have much to learn from them, as well as from each other. Let us go forth together then, working out our salvation with fear and trembling, and seeking to bear one another's burdens, for the Love of God and one another.
Be well all, and God bless everyone who reads.
| 2011/10/25 10:11||Profile|
| Re: |
"But one will perhaps say to me, "Brother Conlon does not accept the Headcovering, and we know he is full of the love of, and is used mightily of God."
Those who invoke the name of anyone other than Jesus and his apostles as some kind of proof of something, expose themselves as possessing a "divisive", "denominational" spirit. I urge you to abandon all such thinking. The apostle warns against those "who compare themselves, by themselves."
Our now-retired pastor used to say when people use the excuse that so-and-so is very spiritual and they do not wear a head-covering that they did not die for our sins. Others can help us along life's pathway, but they can also hinder, so we must be alert to this probability. Having said this, wearing or promoting the use of the head-covering will not guarantee one entrance into heaven. One only gets there through the Blood of Jesus Christ and by allowing his Spirit to regenerate us from a filthy scumbag to a saint. As we grow we learn and so we follow the Lamb wheresoever he leads. When we are yoked together with Him it is not bad at all. He is gentle but always urging us onto greater heights. And, I so want to cooperate with the Lamb in this journey, even if it means wearing a head-covering. I find it a pleasure to do so.
| 2011/10/25 16:51||Profile|
| Re: |
This verse comes to mind
22 Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas (called Barsabbas) and Silas, two men who were leaders among the brothers. 23 With them they sent the following letter: The apostles and elders, your brothers, To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia: Greetings. 24 We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. 25 So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul-- 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. 28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell. 30 The men were sent off and went down to Antioch, where they gathered the church together and delivered the letter. 31 The people read it and were glad for its encouraging message.
I think if we refrain like the gentiles here from the above we do well!
The problem we have in this debate as I see it is both sides genuinely believe their understanding which can lead to two types of church
Type one-A church that broadly dosent believe in a cloth covering but if others want to use a covering when they pray it is ok to do so even if it seen as a little odd.
Type Two- A Church that broadly believes that women should wear a cloth when praying.The problem with the second type is that they wont allow non covered women to pray and will enforce the head covering rule and thus excluding many people women and men from the church.
This message on the whole to me wasnt an encouraging message but we do well if we refrain the things mentioned above
| 2011/10/25 17:50||Profile|