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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Given Her for a Covering by Mike Atnip

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mikey2
Member



Joined: 2011/5/5
Posts: 112


 Re:

Ditto to Appolus, MaryJane.

 2011/10/27 10:46Profile









 Re:

This is the problem saints, we've lifted words off of a page and try to appropriate them into our own lives without the heart being changed concerning it. Multitudes have tried this method and failed miserably because the source of which all of our motor ability that causes us to do spiritual exercises naturally, is not changed, namely the heart.

Both Men and Women everywhere need to seriously look at the scriptures concerning this subject, PRAY about it asking God to change the heart concerning it, and what you have prayed in secret, God will reward you openly by revealing in you what you have petitioned.

By admitting we are wrong about our approach and seeking God to change us and not trying to change ourselves will bring Glory to God through His work in us instead of us glorying in our flesh because of our "works". We acknowledge of what Paul is saying, but we also acknowledge that we have no idea how to change it. So we turn to God for help and to God alone.

If we start doing an external physical activity because of whats written we are heading for trouble.

Let me explain, in every instance, the Holy Spirit plays the vital role of convincing men of their sins, convicting men of their sins which results in either softening the heart or hardening it.

If we hear a message of condemnation over the pulpit over this issue, the man is preaching from his own convictions not from the Holy Spirit. Therefore, if fear arises in your hearts because your not "doing" the right thing, most likely it's due to a man trying to put his fear of God in you, instead of the Holy Spirit doing it for you.

However, there is something to be said for a woman or man who knows these things already and God has spoken it to them and they rebel, then a message of correction is issued and it can be harsh. But I am not speaking of this situation.

A woman who reads this in the bible concerning Paul's teaching here, should not in any way start wearing any head covering because Paul say so, even Paul would say, if your not submitted to your husband you may as well shave your head because your a disgrace to him though you be wearing a headcovering.

We conclude that this is a heart thing. Men should pray with their wives to first, give him a heart that is worthy of a being a husband and give her a heart worthy of being a wife. And if any couple proceeds with this without TRYING TO ACT IN YOUR OWN STRENGTH* by applying in your flesh the will of God, and rather letting the Holy Ghost teach you both concerning this subject and both understand your places in your unified self (because you are one flesh), you will do well.



*Highlighting, not shouting!

 2011/10/27 11:27
dietolive
Member



Joined: 2007/6/29
Posts: 342


 Re: Approved

You wrote:
“A woman who reads this in the bible concerning Paul's teaching here, should not in any way start wearing any head covering because Paul say so, even Paul would say, if your not submitted to your husband you may as well shave your head because your a disgrace to him though you be wearing a headcovering.”


I am sure you mean well with your overall post, but you have misquoted and misrepresented Paul, and therefore serious problems arise from what you have written.

It sounds nice to just say: "Don't worry about it. If your husband tells you not to obey, than you are safe." For the love of God and man, we must not be so hasty to give our counsel, especially when the Scriptures directly contradict you. You are potentially setting our Sisters up to fail.

We learn from Acts 5 that though a wife should reverentially obey her husband in all things, she may NOT obey him to SIN. The Holy Spirit’s inclusion in the Book of Acts of the tragic case of Sapphira choosing to follow her husband in disobedience, and her subsequent death, is the Spirit’s Warning to us in this matter.

This account leaves no doubt that a wife’s obedience goes only as far as all things "indifferent", but it must never cross over the threshold of actually SINNING against the light she has, against the Lord.


“Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;

While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.” I Peter 3:1-2

It should be evident when we remember Ananias and Sapphira, that if a wife’s husband “obeys not the Word”, it is not her conspiring with him to do what she is convicted is wrong that will win him to obedience. Rather, it will be her godly life "of" obedience to the Word, combined with a quiet spirit and reverential respect for her husband, that "will win him" to it.

PLEASE. By all means: When you give your advice concerning sin and obedience, please be diligent to also prove it from the text of Holy Scripture, in its context.

Thank you for taking the time to read and reason.

God bless,
Doug

 2011/10/27 18:21Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7494
Mississippi

 Re:

QUOTE:
"I am disgusted at some of the responses people have posted on the forum."

I can relate - exactly.

As you have learned, it is to God one must give account. All the sarcasm in the world should not interfere in our relationship/obedience with Him. When we stand before God we will have to give account for ourselves only - we cannot rightly blame another person for our failures - to do so would imply that God's grace was not sufficient for us.

God bless you - I am very encouraged by your testimony.

ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2011/10/27 19:10Profile
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1547


 Re:

Hi Doug,
Just on your comment below my point was that men are priest and women are priests but he didnt say they were two different types of priests,just priests.

(You wrote:
"I cant recall male and female priests in the word but just priests."

Yes. Sisters are priests now too. They have full access to the Heavenly Temple and to the throne of God's grace.

However, the implication of your statement seems to imply that you don't believe that men and women are to have different functions in the Body of Christ today, while we are still in this life. Men and women, though both equally a part of the one "Seed" of Abraham (see back to Galatians 3), are yet given different commandments in the New Testament. Don't you see? Saying that Paul saw no functional difference between men and women and yet gave them different functional commandments would itself be nonsense.)

I can only conject the workings out of a leadership that would enforce the wearing of veils or headcovering for women to pray and prophesy.How could such a leadership allow a women to prophesy or pray out loud if they genuinely thought that it was wrong for them to do so.I think head covering is just devisive in this example.

Isnt this conjecture-?
, presumably before His enemies: Satan and the other fallen angels.

Also why is it mentioned for prayer and prophesy?Why not all the time?
I think that their are genuine christians who hold to a belief of head covering and also that their are christians that just want old testament rules and regulations mixed up with grace.
I dont believe that head covering is relevant for today but if someone else thinks it nessacary for them then I will have no problems with that.I do think that headship is as important today as it was then.

Thanks for your reply,Yours staff









 2011/10/27 19:14Profile
dietolive
Member



Joined: 2007/6/29
Posts: 342


 Re: keepstanding

Dear keepstanding,

I too greatly appreciate your testimony dear Sister, and the courage God has given you to stand alone, (though you know you are never alone...)

May our gracious Heavenly Father raise up helpers and comforters to come along beside you and help you on your way. May you be filled with all His peace in believing.

God bless you and keep you today,

Be well,
Doug

 2011/10/27 21:26Profile









 Re:

"I am sure you mean well with your overall post, but you have misquoted and misrepresented Paul".

Hey there, thanks for your correction I do appreciate it.

I really wasn't misquoting, I was saying that "Paul would have said", or could have said not that he did because Paul was an advocate of heart changes. If Paul saw a woman who had long hair and she is not subject to her husband, she may as well not have the covering, she's being a hypocrite. Every preacher who expounds on the word will say these words from time time, "What Paul is saying is this, or what Jesus is saying is this, or whoever or whatever he is quoting". Even Jesus has done it with quoting the law and then saying, "but I say unto you". Talk about wrinkling feathers. If He were speaking today in the flesh, we'd run Him down in the ground for trying to change our way of thinking or worse adding that which is not written in the law.

That is why he says after all that he said that 1 Corinthians 11:16 But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.

Now, what is Paul saying here?

What he said about hair and headship are all correct, and yet he throws this wrench into the works. I think he is saying that if any man wants to fight and bicker over what he is saying, we have no such custom. In other words, lets follow after peace and leave such matters to God. Our place isn't to fight in the flesh but to walk in the Spirit or walk after God. What we don't understand we must leave to God.

I do thank you for taking the time though to post your post and I do take your words seriously as I do with all the family here.

 2011/10/27 22:57









 Re: John NacArthur

I was posting about John MacArthur on another thread and got curious what his stance was on this issue. I googled under 'John MacArthur and the head covering'. His position is the head covering was a cultural practice particular to Corinth. He said Paul was not laying down a universal declaration to all the churches.

I invite you to check it out. I know many in this forum will not agree with his position. But MacArthur is one of the finest Bible teachers this country has produced. His skill in teaching and exegeting the word gives him serious credibility. Consequently anything he would say on this topic should be taken seriously.

Blaine

 2011/10/27 23:08
sarahsdream
Member



Joined: 2011/6/16
Posts: 183


 Re:

Of course it was cultural. Thank you for posting that.

What is the outward sign that a man is loving his wife?

Is it not fruit?

What is the outward sign that a women is respecting her husband.

Is it not fruit, also?

It is most certainly not a piece of cloth.

In Christ,
Sarah

 2011/10/28 0:41Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7494
Mississippi

 Re:

I think I would rather take my risks with the Bible, including the Apostle Paul rather then John MacArthur. The Apostle Paul saw the LORD and was taught by him. To me his credentials are greater then MacArthurs.


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2011/10/28 1:25Profile





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