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Joined: 2011/2/23
Posts: 58
Brest, France


Brothers and sisters, I beleive this is a good area to practice that proverb.



 2011/10/2 13:03Profile

 Re: Are we even oraying or otophrsying?

Question. Why the argument? You are putting the cart before the horse. You are debating whether it is proper for a woman to pray or prophesy with her head uncovered when the church is doing neither. Until you get prayer and prophesy back into the church this discussion is moot.

You should be asking, even debating why the church is not praying and prophrsying. I think it is kind of funny we are trying to prescribe guideines for sisters to prayer when the men in the church are not praying.

That leads me to another question. How many of you men are praying? How many of you men wake up at 2 or 3am and cry out for the lost? Cry out for revival? How many of you men lead in prayer meetings in your churches? How msny of you men lead in prayer in your families?

We are good at telling the sisters how to pray and what they must wear to pray. But who does the praying? I tell you it ain't the men. I have prayed in many a prayer meeting and on many con calls and except in the rarest of occasions it is the women who pray. The men are strangley absent. Yet these are the men who want to tell and prescribe to the women how they must pray.

Men get some credibility in your life. If you want the women to listen to you about how they should pray then you yourselves start praying.

Then maybe we will see revival in the church.


 2011/10/2 13:39

Joined: 2006/9/13
Posts: 3165


Amen Blaine. Amen.

 2011/10/2 13:59Profile


Amen brother Blaine, focussing back onto the " camel," and laying aside the "gnat.' Frank

 2011/10/2 14:16


Hmm. Me chockum on that camel sometime. Easier to smokum. Chuckle.


 2011/10/2 14:35

Joined: 2005/11/5
Posts: 123


Yes, to follow or embrace this is not legalism. You can be legalistic about this if you force women NOT to wear it when they have the conviction to wear it. It can go either way. GW North and Watchman Nee have some additional writings on this for further study. Most women that i have known who practice this understand that it doesn't make one 'holy'. Its a visible reminder of the inner-life. Thats the point. But it doesn't guarantee you will be holy. Only the Holy Spirit can do that...not a cloth.

james thorpe

 2011/10/2 19:18Profile

Joined: 2007/8/22
Posts: 116


So Blaine I must assume you get up at 2 am a lot and cry out to God for the lost and revival. I must assume you lead in the prayer meetings at your church and with your family. You wouldn't be trying to get a speck out of my eye with a beam in yours would you?


 2011/10/2 20:42Profile

Joined: 2004/4/27
Posts: 431
New York


by sermonindex on 2011/10/2 6:03:05 writes:

"Excellent post Nathan. Surely something for everyone to think about. The witness of the early church fathers many times goes against 100% what modern evangelicalism believes. We have to be open to the Word of God and the Spirit of God in these matters to ask the honest question are we wrong and they were right?"

I fully agree, Nathans' post is excellent.

The word for woman leans toward wife in the Greek:


gune (goo-nay'); probably from the base of NT:1096; a woman; specially, a wife:

(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

I thought the other word was a 'veil'. Apparently Paul is speaking about a Hat or scarf for woman. Which was very common up at least through the 1960's. Veil in my mind is a face covering. Pardon my English.

Arthur Biele

 2011/10/2 22:30Profile

Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7497

 Re: Wearing a Head covering, Pt. 2

What follows is my testimony as to why I wear one.

I will not go into the Scriptures to explain why: this has already been done. But I will share my experience with the struggle to obey it.

I grew up in a church where it was practiced as I suppose many of your grandparents or great-grand parents, if they were church-going people, did as well. It was well taught and expected that its members would make application.

When I was 18 years old in 1965, I had a severe struggle with it: I did NOT want to wear it! Period! I did not like to look like a sore thumb in any crowd: I wanted to look like everyone else. After all, there are many Christian ladies out there who have a wonderful testimony and they do not wear one, so why do I have to???

I was at Rosedale Bible School that year and I shared my struggle at chapel one day. Prayer was had for me and the struggle became history for fourteen years when the struggle took on a new turn. I was sick and tired of dealing with long hair. They were long: I could sit on them when hanging and that was very annoying when they were drying after washing. Not only was the length an aggravation so was the thickness: they were thick. And I was tired of caring for long, think hair. My weariness of caring for them got so severe I made sure I did not have a scissors nearby when I worked with them lest I would on impulse cut them. I knew if I cut them it would be very wrong and I did not want to do wrong. God saw my plight because before too long I conceived (surprise!) and in the process of carrying this child I lost almost half of my hair, never to grow back again. (You can't tell me God does not have a sense of humor!)

When I was forty years old I began working at the Crises Pregnancy Center. (Not until later did I learn they were reluctant to hire me because I looked different and they did not know how the clients would respond to me.) From experience I was well aware girls may be intimidated by my appearance so I depended on the LORD to help me surmount this wall. What followed was nothing short of amazing: the girls warmed up to me and they could feel my love because it was God given - and the director was pleasantly surprised. (I shared my concern with an Independent Methodist pastor about this issue and he said if people can sense your love they will not care what you look like! Excellent advice!)

As I worked with the other staff members I quickly noticed a difference between them and me. These ladies were the best in their churches: they were the most spiritual, knowledgeable in the WORD in their brotherhood. They came from the Charismatic, Assembly of God, Baptists, Presbyterian and Catholic traditions. They were skilled, smart and caring ladies: I loved them, learned a lot from them. But they had fear - fear for their own personal safety - their fear was foreign to me. I had none. I expected God to take the responsibility for my safety.

One time there was a murder committed two blocks away and the murderer was never found to my knowledge. Now the director was scared spitless. She insisted we keep the door locked and if anyone wanted in we had to go unlock it! This got to be pure aggravation, if you were alone there with clients. You were busy in another part of the building and then you had to go answer the door! I decided eventually to leave the door unlocked, like before, and if anyone wants to kill me, so be it! It is God's job to protect me from murderers! And He did. Later the director commented on this fact that Sandra is not scared of anyone!

I had come to this conclusion: that it is God's job to protect me! I am physically weak, short - less then 5' tall- I am no match for anyone who desires to overpower me. I cannot fight to protect myself, and since I belong to God it it his job. This faith is rooted in the WORD where it says that we are to cover our heads because of the angels - who are God's ministering spirits to his children. Since my safety from evil men rests in the hands of God, I do not worry about it at all! I wear my covering at home, in the public to honor my Saviour. He has not let me down and I certainly do not want to let him down - He did so much for me, more then I can ever do for him so why should I not want to be obedient to him in such a small way? I am not ashamed of Him or to stand out in a crowd. My sticking out like a sore thumb is no match to hang naked from a cross like He did for all to gawk at! Jesus said if we will be ashamed of Him, he will be ashamed of us. So, I joyfully wear something that marks me as a child of the KING!

More to come later...

Sandra Miller

 2011/10/2 22:41Profile


Brother to answer your question I do get up in the early morning hours and pray and listen to my New Testament on my digital Bible. Most of the time the hour varies from 2am or 3am. My time of prayer can be from 2 to 3 hours. This is not on my knees. But I P and P, pace and pray. I have come to value these times with Jesus as the early morning hours as they are the clearest time I can hear his voice without the distractions of the day. I begin to see why Jesus valued the night and early morning times of orayer. It was communion with his Father.

I am single and not involved in a church. But I lead a conference call 3 times a week where we pray for the persecuted church. I might add that most of my intercessors are women who pray heart felt, powerful prayers. Very few men come on our calls though it is open to them. We are also planning a 12 hour con call for the IDOP in Nov. I am one of 2 people working on that call

Forgive me if this sounds like boasting but I was trying to be honest about my prayer life. Am I trying to get the speck out if your eye and not get the plank out of my own? No. Is my prayer life perfect? By no means. Am I going to tell a sister how to pray or what she must wear to pray? No.

My post was to challenge men in the church to set the standard and pray. When I have been involved in churches many times the women carry the burden of prayer. It just seems pretty hypocritical to mandate a head covering for women to pray or prophesy in the church when very little of either is done.

Bless God if you are a praying man and your church prays. Yours would be the exception. But for the most part the church in America is not a praying church. Just look st the state of the church and you see what I mean.


 2011/10/2 22:58

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