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 Re:

Quote:
Hi Endzone,

In answer to your question, I did not line up. The Holy Spirit would not let me brother. I am a tongue speaking believer in the gifts of the Holy Spirit. The Lord speaks to me through the word and into my heart. I follow His leading to the best of my ability. I have poured over Scripture and drank it in since the day that I was saved. I love the Word of God. I have seen God perform miracles, I have seen possesed people dispossesed. And so, there is an inner witness and there is the Word of God, both line up against me lining up to be " slain in the Spirit."

I have a good brother who is a missionary in Nepal, he is a pentecostal brother. He was preaching outdoors one day and suddenly two men fell down and began to shake and cry out in ecstasy. The crowd leaned forward, impressed by the " power of God." This brother ran down with a few others into the crowd and cried out to them " this is not of God." They stopped the men and had them removed. He began again to preach and suddenly the Holy Spirit fell upon the crowd, the Holy Spirit of conviciton, there was weeping and hands raised to heaven and men were saved and experienced great joy. Now endzone, the point is this, it was only a matter of this good brother exercising discernment, thats all it took. He could do that because he was genuinly baptized in the Holy Spirit and had that wisdom. He knew and had expereinced the power of God and he knew what he was witnessing was not the power of God, oh yes it was a power, but not THE power. .........brother Frank



Well brother you missed it. It's hard to come to Jesus as a little trusting child. We are afraid we might embarasses ourselves. Believe me, there were pastors there that were afraid. Nobody wants to look foolish or not be the one to "get it". I don't think it had much to do with your discernment--you just didn't want to take the risk.

As far as the story, they say that in Africa when people do that they know immediately that they are getting delivered from a demon.

 2011/9/28 22:56
givensdj
Member



Joined: 2011/9/28
Posts: 7


 Re:

Endzone,

No brother I was not apart of the movement in anyway, but I have done some research on what was taking place. I have read your testimony about the happenings (the joy that seemed almost comparable to that of a climax), and from reading this I do not find that experience anywhere in the Bible. When the Holy Spirit fell in the upper room, no where does it say that the men/women began to laugh uncontrolably. No it states that they spoke in other tounges that the people of other countries could interpret.

The Bible does say to enter the Kingdom of Heaven we must be as children (Mathew 18:3), but it would be a misenterpritation if one were to say that becuase we are to be children we are to not use discerment and jump in line to do whatever it is that everyone else is doing...

John Wesley acutally says this in his commentary of Mathew 18:3 "The first step toward entering into the kingdom of grace, is to become as little children: lowly in heart, knowing yourselves utterly ignorant and helpless, and hanging wholly on your Father who is in heaven, for a supply of all your wants."

He says nothing about not using discernment and blindly trust all things that happen in churches to be of God.

As I quoted from 2 Corinthians 11:14 earlier, the devil can disguise himself as an angel of light. He can make himself out to be a visage of what some may think to be God. Just as when Moses performed the miracles for Pharaoh of Eygypt, Pharaoh's soothsayers could perform most all of the same miracles except one. Does this mean that the soothsayers were sent from God becuase they could perform signs? No ofcourse not. But the one miracle that could not be replicated was that of the cleansing of lepracy (a symbol for the cleansing of sin from a man). So we are shown in the Bible that one thing that the devil cannot replicate is that of the cleansing of sin. And from what I have read there was not true repentance from those touched by that "spirit". And in some cases after this spirit came churches actually were damaged beyond repair. So if this be the case, then from discerment I have recieved from the Lord, I can easily say that what took place was invalid and not the Lord.

Now having said that brother once again I urge you to stop debating over the validity of your experience. Although consulting other saints with an open heart is agreeable, debating for the sake of debating is unhelpful and leads to nothing but strife. You started this forum with a question about how others felt about what took place during the movement. Many have answered, and many have disagreed with what took place, and your reaction has been defensive. So if you are standing firm in your belief, that what took place was valid, then I truly don't know why this debate continues.

Plenty of evidence has been presented for both arguments, so what now needs to be done is taking the evidence and comparing it with The Word and seeking the Lord for wisdom (just as the Beareans did (Acts 17:10-11)). If you are not willing to do this then I believe this has been a waste of time for all involved in this forum.

I hope that you will seek the Lord's enlightenment.

 2011/9/28 23:13Profile
jimp
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

hi, i find it very hard to comment on this subject for i have very negative experiences that i did not think were of the Lord while many dear brothers in the church were very involved.to comment on it without being there annoys me to no end.for some it was the first experience with what seemed to be miraculous moves of God.i was on staff ( involvewd in the homeless ministry) in a growing,giving Christ centered church with a powerful ministry to the city.and rhb came and my pastor became drunk in the spirit as did most all the staff. these were great people who were dear friends(and golf buddies)who started a church with a high school prayer group and built it through hundreds of salvations to a large church.it is better to have felt then tellt.we would bring 50 homeless to service and the pastor would sometimes not even preach the gospel. the crazies in the church became crazier and were thought to be in the spirit. there was no order.there was laughing in the middle of preaching or invitations that were so out of order.i left the church because i did not get a clear witness that this was of the Lord. since this time things in that church settled down and they turned their emphases back to winning souls and are doing quite well.i love these people and spent years of joy with them and still love them.they are the greatest influence for God in a very wicked and evil large city and arerecognized as such.

 2011/9/29 0:14Profile









 Re:

"I don't think it had much to do with your discernment--you just didn't want to take the risk."

It seems like you have made up your mind endzone.All I can do is assure you that I know the small still voice of the Lord that has been leading and guiding me for 21 years, that voice has never led me astray and has always been in line with Scripture. The sheep knows the masters voice, we are led by the good shepherd and we are led by the word of God. Should I follow what you say or RHB or what the Lord speaks to my heart and what the word of God says? Shall I give account to men for my life here on earth or am I accountable to the Lord and His word? Is it a light unto my path, or should I follow the voice of another? It seems that you would have me abandon all of that, to experience being " slain in the spirit, ' something not even in the Scriptures.

At the risk of being judged by others endzone, can I tell you that I have experienced the presence of God, many times over the last 21 years. It has ruined me for all of this life. The majesty and the glory of being in His presence is beyond all words. You compare some man shouting fire to the glorious majesty of the presence of the living God where mouths are hushed, voices are silenced as the King of Glory comes in. Lives are never the same, never the same after a genuine encounter with the living God. You pray more, you love more, you forgive more you devour the word of God more. Your love and desire for Jesus and to follow Him and Him alone increase. The only name you care about after a genuine encounter with God is Jesus. He is the one who is elevated, not men or movements. I have knelt before men in the presence of God, I have lay prostrate on the floor because of God in front of men. I was not pushed over, no man gets the glory, I simply assumed the only position that is right and proper before a mighty God. My hands are raised to heaven because that is what comes naturaly to me in the presence of God. Brother, by not following the men that you like, I have missed nothing. I will never follow or ascribe to men what rightfully belongs to God. He leads and guides me and I answer to Him.

Endzone, you are free to follow whomever you like. I respect your free will. If you want to follow RHB and spend lots of time talking about him, I have no problem with that. Once a man has genuinly encountered the Lord, he wont give much time to men. He will be caught up in the great love of His soul, Jesus, and spend his time lifting that name up. It becomes a grand obsession. It has been my observations over the years that men who have genuinly encountered the Lord come out of that and want to speak, not about the particulars of their experience, but want to tell others of the majesty and the glory of the living God, they are simply undone. Compare that to some of the crass descriptions we hear from people who want to tell you how they felt and mention little or anything about the God of wonder............brother Frank

 2011/9/29 0:38









 Re:

Quote:
hi, i find it very hard to comment on this subject for i have very negative experiences that i did not think were of the Lord while many dear brothers in the church were very involved.to comment on it without being there annoys me to no end.for some it was the first experience with what seemed to be miraculous moves of God.i was on staff ( involvewd in the homeless ministry) in a growing,giving Christ centered church with a powerful ministry to the city.and rhb came and my pastor became drunk in the spirit as did most all the staff. these were great people who were dear friends(and golf buddies)who started a church with a high school prayer group and built it through hundreds of salvations to a large church.it is better to have felt then tellt.we would bring 50 homeless to service and the pastor would sometimes not even preach the gospel. the crazies in the church became crazier and were thought to be in the spirit. there was no order.there was laughing in the middle of preaching or invitations that were so out of order.i left the church because i did not get a clear witness that this was of the Lord. since this time things in that church settled down and they turned their emphases back to winning souls and are doing quite well.i love these people and spent years of joy with them and still love them.they are the greatest influence for God in a very wicked and evil large city and arerecognized as such.



Brother your church sounds what Calvary Cathedral International become. For at least 3 years after RHB left, there was the laughter thing. To this day I don't really believe that was the ministry that the Lord gave to RHB. His ministry was the touch of joy and the ability to resist sin much easier. It was really a glimpse into what heaven is going to be like. But, I don't think it was suppossed to become a movement or a form of worship. So who was wrong? Was it RHB who said this should become the form in your services from now on, or was it the pastors who didn't know when to move on. I think it was on the pastors of the churches where this went on and on and on.

BUT, I'm not going to say this move wasn't very real and very anointed because of that. The experience itself was very real and very much of the Holy Spirit. Did you go down to get "filled"? Or were you too afraid to go down? Were you left standing when he went down the line? Does that mean you're not favored of God or not spiritual? I sure don't think it does brother. You must live in either Vancouver, BC, New Orleans, San Francisco or Las Vegas.

BTW, can you email your pastor and ask him if he still thinks the joy was real? Can you ask him if he still thinks that he was "drunk in the spirit"? Would you post his comments? Thanks.

 2011/9/29 1:12
Renoncer
Member



Joined: 2010/6/26
Posts: 483


 Re:

I remember when I was doing evangelism in Quebec city, one morning, as my partner and I were praying, the Lord warned me that we were going to be attacked that day. I told my brother about it, and we prayed that the Lord would help us in due time. That day, we suffered two attacks. Praise the Lord for warning us, or else, chances are we would have fallen into the traps of the enemy.

I'll spare you the details of the first attack, but the second attack had to do with a false teacher trying to come in and disrupt the work of the Lord. Now, we discerned that something was desperately wrong by testing him according to the Word of God, and found that he was promoting false teachings. However, most people cannot identify these false teachings, which is why they spread so rapidly. So, I would like to point out a test that is very simple and that can be applied by anobody who honestly wants to know the truth: looking at the fruit of their ministry.

Now, of course, there will always be some bad apples, so I am not talking about the odd examples. The following test should take the majority as a sample. Taken from 2 Peter 2, here it is:

False teachers will speak words that sound highly spiritual, and that will have a temporary but seemingly powerful effect on the people. However, their final end is the real deal. People who fall prey to their false teachings will believe that these teachers have something of the higher order to offer them, but in the end, they will find themselves bound in solid chains of bondage to sin. For a time, they will feel an ecstatic sense of overwhelming surge, making them feel like they have never felt before. They will fall into a boastful spiritual attitude, while acting uncontrollably. Although there may be a temporary sense of power over evil and sin, the false spirits will soon begin their work of destruction by giving the person insatiable cravings. These cravings, in the likes of sensual/sexual passions, will overwhelm the person, such that the person's final end will be far worse. As a result, although the person has previously come to a knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, he will find himself unable to control his sinful passions and will be led back into slavery to sin. This is the real danger of those false teachings: Inoculating people to the real saving power of the Lord Jesus Christ. Verse 21 says that it would have been better for them never to have even known the way of righteousness, than to have turned their backs on what could have otherwise saved them. This is why 2 Peter 2 reserves some pretty harsh language against those false teachers.

So, if you find that this picture applies to the majority of the people under their ministry, you have a false teacher. These people become slaves to sin, especially sensual/sexual sins and lack of self-control. Only a miracle of God can undo the terrible ravages of such false teachings. But, there is power in the blood, to snatch these souls from the fire of hell. Remember: Whatever controls you, that is your real owner; either sin, or the Lord Jesus Christ. (Verse 19)

Please take some time to read 2 Peter 2 and see what the Word of God says about this:

"But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep. For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment; if he did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven others, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly; if by turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes he condemned them to extinction, making them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; and if he rescued righteous Lot, greatly distressed by the sensual conduct of the wicked (for as that righteous man lived among them day after day, he was tormenting his righteous soul over their lawless deeds that he saw and heard); then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment until the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge in the lust of defiling passion and despise authority. Bold and willful, they do not tremble as they blaspheme the glorious ones, whereas angels, though greater in might and power, do not pronounce a blasphemous judgment against them before the Lord. But these, like irrational animals, creatures of instinct, born to be caught and destroyed, blaspheming about matters of which they are ignorant, will also be destroyed in their destruction, suffering wrong as the wage for their wrongdoing. They count it pleasure to revel in the daytime. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their deceptions, while they feast with you. They have eyes full of adultery, insatiable for sin. They entice unsteady souls. They have hearts trained in greed. Accursed children! Forsaking the right way, they have gone astray. They have followed the way of Balaam, the son of Beor, who loved gain from wrongdoing, but was rebuked for his own transgression; a speechless donkey spoke with human voice and restrained the prophet's madness. These are waterless springs and mists driven by a storm. For them the gloom of utter darkness has been reserved. For, speaking loud boasts of folly, they entice by sensual passions of the flesh those who are barely escaping from those who live in error. They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption. For whatever overcomes a person, to that he is enslaved. For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: "The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire."
(2 Peter 2:1-22)

In Christ Jesus,
Renoncer

 2011/9/29 1:13Profile









 Re:

Brother Frank I spoke of some of things about this movement I didn't like. And, I'm not a RHB follower. How could anybody pull this off if it wasn't real? It would be humanly impossible. You and I will just have to disagree about what spirit was behind it.

I didn't start this thread to just talk about RHB. I just simply wanted to know if anyone got the experience of the joy under his ministry. So far, it looks like I'm the only one on Sermon Index that has. If you watch the youtube videos, most of the comments there are quite positive and affirming of this particular ministry. And, it was a very unique ministry. It's not going to bother me if you think it was from Satan--alright? Please don't let it bother you if I believe it was from the Lord. Fair enough?

 2011/9/29 1:16
EverestoSama
Member



Joined: 2010/5/17
Posts: 1175


 Re:

Quote:
How could anybody pull this off if it wasn't real?



If this is your opinion, good luck discerning the man of lawlessness when he enters the scene.

Totally sincere question, did you find that after being filled with this "climactic joy", that it helped free you from sexual sin long term?

 2011/9/29 2:40Profile









 Re:

Quote:
If this is your opinion, good luck discerning the man of lawlessness when he enters the scene.

Totally sincere question, did you find that after being filled with this "climactic joy", that it helped free you from sexual sin long term?



Well, as I said before, it was like a river of water flowing inside my body from head to toe. I understand now somewhat what "living water" is. It was a very euphoric feeling, but it was also very holy.

No, it didn't help with my sexual problem, but that wasn't really the purpose of it. The purpose of it was to experience a foretaste of what is to come.

 2011/9/29 3:32









 Re:

Isn't this little girl cute? This was taken by a lady who lives in Dallas and she post on my photo share site. This was at the Dallas Arboretum.

http://www.pbase.com/craig_c/image/138449889/large

 2011/9/29 3:48





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