Thank-you so very much for your response, Chris. You made a lot of important points that one would do well to meditate upon, e.g., "I asked him if he would picture Jesus using such language."

God bless...

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Sandra Miller

Blessings all,

I don't want to change the subject because i disagree with it at all, because i don't, but we are seeing an external problem that has a HUGE meaning if we look deeper.
The question should not be about cussing in the church, but why is the church willingly conforming to sin? We see this in things that can be "justified". Music, movies, lust thats not seen, just anything really. I think the problem rests in that people are fine with the way they are and are not willing to go deeper with Christ or go with Him at all. We need to talk about how to change this HUGE fact.

This is where the true MEN of God step in. Its not about the vain image of doing right, but the heart of just wanting God in all things. Failure will happen, but defeat must not be allowed.

In Love,
Joe

Edit: We must forget about the image of church and find the foundation of it once again.

The Lord has been working on me with this too. I began to notice how horrible certain words sounded coming out of OTHER people's mouthes and wondered, 'Is that how bad it sounds coming out of mine?' I also knew that when i or others swear it is really rooted in deep-seated anger, which i have always struggled with. But it did not help any that a Lutheran pastor had told me that using the F-word is NOT a sin. So confused at the time i kept on using it when angry because he said it was ok. It was only after a long term of listening to very unprofessional, non-Christian coworkers that i realized how awful those words sounded to me when it came from THEM and i began to really rethink things...

I agree, Krispy. There is the notion out there that EVERY Christian instantly becomes PERFECT the day of their conversion but that is just not so. I aint never met one perfect Christian ANYWHERE, in ANY church. And anyone who thinks he/she has no sin is proud and deceives themselves; no one is perfect in all their thoughts, etc. However, i do realize that the other posters on here are talking about a pattern of on-going sin as opposed to occasional fall. It is just that God works slower in some. For me, my sins fell away more gradually, as i repented of one after another as God gave me light and understanding. You can only respond to the light that you have.

QUOTE: "Allow me to go further. Jews under Law, and knowing the Law, And without the power of the cross or the power of the holy ghost didn't have (major) issues with cussing, dirty speech, dirty languuge, vulgar talk, Etc"--SONOFTHUNDER

Says who? Peter said, "Depart from me Lord for i am a sinful man" and there was also one of the prophets who i cant remember right now who was ashamed of his sinful lips while being given great revelation so the angel cleansed his mouth with coal. Where is your support and proof for your claim? And what is the definition of "major" vs. "minor"? And does it matter? They would not have gotten away with blasphemy but that is different. My KJB says that after the maid repeatedly accused Peter of being with Jesus he "cursed".

"I dont know about that... ever been to NYC?"

No.

You suggesting it is worse there then in the South? What makes things so bad here in the south is you have Calvinism gone to seed. People think 'once saved, always saved' and the flesh can still do whatever wherever and it will not impact ones eternal destiny. And this is how they live and you cannot convince them otherwise. The irony of it all is that the young, the ignorant, know better. It is the ones who are 'well informed' that teach otherwise and they are powerful. Rabbit trails...

Anyhow, what is your point about NYC?

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Sandra Miller

Ginnyrose,
I would say the real problem is "cheap grace", a "grace" that is powerless and ineffectual against the power of sin. Americans want to believe that they are safe eternally, regarless of what reality screams at them. We have detached the afterlife from the reality of the moment. But, if we do not see any indication of the effect of the grace of God RIGHT NOW, what makes us think that the grace of God will have any effect on Judgment Day?

The truth is that if you are REALLY under grace, sin does NOT have DOMINION over you anymore (Romans 6:14).

As Leonard Ravenhill would say, "You're saved from sin? Okay, what are you saved from? Are you saved from bitterness? Are you saved from lust? Are you saved from cussing? Come on! What are you saved from?"

In his book entitled "God has a wonderful plan for your life: The myth of the modern message", Ray Comfort shows the problem of trying to conduct evangelism without first making people tremble before the Law of God. It's a must read.

Praise God for the upcoming conference, "Has the Church lost the fear of the Lord?" We do need to tremble before God, so that by faith we might hold on to His wonderful and effectual grace. Christ did not come to set us free from hell; He came to set us free from sin, the power and the condemnation thereof.

In Christ Jesus,
Renoncer

Ginny... anyone who really thinks that that is the teaching of historical Calvinism doesnt understand Calvinism. To be honest with you, it's not Calvinism... it's the whole "me & Jesus got it all worked out" mentality that you see in the south.

The thinking that going to church is all it takes is the problem here in the south. It's a form of godliness but it denies the power.

You can't drag Calvinism into this discussion because I dont think there is a connection. If anything it's Palageanism that is the problem. People go forward, and before there can ever be any fruit the preacher calls them saved and turns them out. When they doubt whether they are saved they are told to look at the sticker inside the front cover of their Bible and remind themselves of the date that they prayed the majic words.

It's called "easy believe-ism".

Thats hardly Reformed Theology! lol... in fact, Reformed preachers are leading the fight AGAINST that type of thing in the church.

As far as NYC is concerned... walk the streets of Brooklyn sometime, or take a taxi into Manhatten. You'll hear cuss words you never knew existed. My experience (and I have plenty!) is that cussing and taking the Lord's name in vain is MUCH worse in the Northeast.

Krispy

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Christopher