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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Did Jesus Turn Water into Fermented or unfermented Wine?

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 Re:

Quote:
Zaccheus was short



So you're saying being short is a fault??

Phew... glad I am 6 feet!

Krispy

 2011/8/24 12:38
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4529


 Re:

Hi Brother Robert,

Good points. Today's society is very different than a society where people drank water from rivers, streams and wells...and where "refrigeration" was non-existent outside of a few deep caves.

Wine was not designed to simply get people drunk. It was used as a preservative in the age before refrigeration...and for health purposes. It was not synthetically prepared in order to produce a high alcohol content (like most modern drinks).

As for whether "wine" contained alcohol: Timothy was instructed about requirements for overseers and deacons. Deacons were instructed to refrain from being "given to much wine." If there was no alcohol content in such wine, then why offer such a guideline? Why would you be instructed to avoid too much of it?

The Biblical principle focuses on avoiding drunkenness. "Strong drink" as understood today is manufactured (at least partially) because of the alcohol content. Natural red wine has some proven health benefits, but too much of it can result in drunkenness. Since the amount needed to achieve "drunkenness" varies from person-to-person and size-to-size, then it is a risky endeavor to drink at all.

I don't drink wine. I can obtain most of the same health benefits by drinking regular pomegranate juice. Fresh water is readily available today in a way that was almost unthinkable in Biblical times. So, I just don't see a need to ever drink it. That said: I do believe that wine in the Bible had some alcohol in it...and I won't judge anyone who drinks wine. However, the Scriptural principle against drunkenness was the same then as it is now.


_________________
Christopher

 2011/8/24 13:25Profile









 Re:

Good word ccchhhrrriiisss... I agree.

Krispy

 2011/8/24 13:32
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3317
Texas

 Re:


Quote:
KrispyKrittr......Zaccheus was short



Quote:
So you're saying being short is a fault??
Phew... glad I am 6 feet!
Krispy




Hey Abraham was old, and I am old, I thought being old was a fault, O sorry! I must have heard that during all the Social Security debates in Washington.


_________________
Bill

 2011/8/24 13:37Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
However, the Scriptural principle against drunkenness was the same then as it is now.



I think this is quite true. To try to bring this all into balance I see wine in some cases in the NT as a necessity. But the necessity is always balanced with the dangers. I think of Galatians 5:21 and 1 Cor 6:10 I think we have the solution in Romans 13:14:

But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts.

I know it is not popular, but it seems pretty straightforward.


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2011/8/24 13:55Profile
Wheelz1951
Member



Joined: 2006/6/21
Posts: 10
Arkansas

 Re: Did Jesus Turn Water into Fermented or unfermented Wine?

This topic is so shallow. So what if Jesus turned water into alcoholic wine. If drinking wine is a sin the majority of Christians in Europe are doomed to hell. It's not what goes into the body, it's what comes out.

"And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit" (Eph 5:18) leads me to believe that even being a little tipsy is not a sin.

And we in the West feel that we have such a handle on the Bible and what is and isn't "sin." We're so busy worrying about the petty issues within our own 4 walls we neglect to go out and evangelize the world. God help us!

 2011/8/24 14:33Profile









 Re:

Quote:
We're so busy worrying about the petty issues within our own 4 walls we neglect to go out and evangelize the world. God help us!



While I agree with what you said, this last part is a bit over the top. You dont know anyone on this forum, so making a judgment like that is a sin too, my friend.

You were ok until you became the "accuser of the brethren". Not a good place to be.

Krispy

 2011/8/24 14:40
Creation7
Member



Joined: 2011/8/16
Posts: 159


 Re:

Quote:
Would you stand in the public square and proclaim the glorious gospel of Christ with a Bible in one hand... and a Bud Lite in the other?



But if you think there's nothing wrong with drinking a Bud Lite, why would you suddenly feel guilty doing it when proclaiming the Gospel?

 2011/8/24 14:44Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
We're so busy worrying about the petty issues within our own 4 walls we neglect to go out and evangelize the world. God help us!



The subject is important because we live in a time where Christian standards are falling through the floor. How can we listen to the sermons of the men on this site and not embrace the lifestyle most of them chose? They lived lives of holiness and separation. I for one believe compromise is a primary reason why we are seeing the spiritual and moral deterioration in the West. We are fast losing our distinction between Christians and those in the world. This is just one area of many that I believe need to be addressed.

As for beyond the four walls ministry I speak as a fool to say I have been in outreach ministry weekly for some 17 years. So it does not have to be one or the other. We can hold up the standard and preach at the same time.


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2011/8/24 14:47Profile









 Re:

Quote:
But if you think there's nothing wrong with drinking a Bud Lite, why would you suddenly feel guilty doing it when proclaiming the Gospel?



Thats my point. All things are permissable, but not all things are beneficial. Thats what Paul said.

If you cant do something and proclaim the gospel at the same time... then it's not beneficial.

Krispy

 2011/8/24 14:57





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