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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Did Jesus Turn Water into Fermented or unfermented Wine?

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 Re:

Quote:
Tests show that after drinking three bottles of beer, there is an average of 13 percent net memory loss. After taking only small quantities of alcohol, trained typists were tested and their errors increased 40 percent. Only one ounce of alcohol increases the time required to make a decision by nearly 10 percent; hinders muscular reaction by 17 percent; increases errors due to lack of attention by 35 percent.



...and we all learned in health class in 10th grade that alcohol effects everyone differently according to body mass, how much food they've eaten, etc.

And rock music kills house plants.

C'mon... let's stop with this and stick to scripture.

Krispy

 2011/8/23 14:05
TimmyJoe
Member



Joined: 2007/6/19
Posts: 120
Panama City, FL

 Re:

As I've read through this thread I have seen a lot of helpful and interesting responses. And to those who say these threads are a waste of time, I remind you that the majority of the New Testament is dealing with these types of issues. As the Gospel was spread to different non-jewish cultures questions like.. what can we eat? Drink? How long should our hair be? What sexual practices can we partake of? always came up. The apostles spent a lot of time dealing with cultural issues. So these kinds of threads are good, becauses they cause to search the scriptures to see if our opinions are really biblical.

Personally, I believe that throughout scripture and church history the drinking of wine or beer was a normal practice, but over indulgence in both drink and food has always been condemned. "For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost." (Romans 15:17)

Edit: I recommend listening to John Piper answer the question, "Can drinking alcohol be OK?" on youtube.

 2011/8/23 15:29Profile









 Re:

Interesting point, Timmy...

Funny how we go on and on about alcohol. Where is the thread on over eating? People say "your body is a temple, so dont drink or smoke" ... but then never mention eating fatty fried food, etc.

Go to my blog (link below) and read my article "My Struggle With The American Idol"... (the idol being gluttony)

Krispy

 2011/8/23 16:01
savedtoserve
Member



Joined: 2011/4/7
Posts: 255


 Re:

Quote:
It doesn't make sense any other way...They called Jesus a 'winebibber and a sinner', do you think that they called Him this for drinking grape juice?



So if you're accused of being a drunkard, then we should deduce that that you've even drank alcohol before? NO! Just because He was accused of being a "winebibber" doesn't mean He drank liquor at all.

Quote:
C'mon... let's stop with this and stick to scripture.



But you need to face the physical effect it causes as well as the Biblical evidence, while the latter is, of course, more important. Having said that, you never answered the verses on this topic except for reading into them to fit your views. Why not just take God for what He said?

Different folks have told me that I ought not to drink it because my conscience is obviously against it. Well, of course! I'm not forcing anyone else to believe likewise. All I'm doing is challenging your position.
Quote:
don't judge others who do as being less spiritual than yourself.


I never did; let's not bring in irrelevant issues.

savedtoserve

 2011/8/23 16:12Profile
learjet
Member



Joined: 2010/4/19
Posts: 447


 Re:

Quote:
Funny how we go on and on about alcohol. Where is the thread on over eating? People say "your body is a temple, so dont drink or smoke" ... but then never mention eating fatty fried food, etc.



Watch it Krispy, you're getting close to my sacred cows there :-)

Well, I've summed up my beliefs on the issue and don't think that I can add anymore to the thread. Additionally, I don't want to get into an endless debate like Titus is warned about.

Thank you for the discussion!

Peace to all of you!

 2011/8/23 16:22Profile
Creation7
Member



Joined: 2011/8/16
Posts: 159


 Re:

Quote:
who cares about such questions? Let me list some categories of people interested in such questions:

1) Pharisees
2) Poeple with a religious spirit
3) Scribes
4) ecclesiastical bloodhounds
5) Pharisees
6) Pharisees
7) Pharisees
8) Pharisees
9) or the curious brother



Funny how the hit dog always yelps. XD

 2011/8/23 16:53Profile
Solomon101
Member



Joined: 2008/4/1
Posts: 531
America's Heartand

 Re:

The rest of the oft partially quoted verse is Luke 7:33-34

33 For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine, and you say, ‘He has a demon.’ 34 THE SON OF MAN CAME EATING AND DRINKING, and you say, ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.’
(caps mine)

Fairly obvious what Jesus was drinking isn't it?

Jesus Himself said, "The Son of Man came eating and drinking". In the context of the scripture no other conclusion can be reached than that Jesus stated with His own mouth he drank alcoholic wine at times.

It simply means what it actually says

 2011/8/23 17:03Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7497
Mississippi

 Re:

In this discussion of drinking alcoholic beverages and the suppose freedom to do so, I am left wondering how many proponents have ever surrendered a freedom or liberty for the sake of a weak brother or sister?

I can tell you from experience the rewards are rich...ah,the blessing of having earned their trust rivals anything far beyond what I would have gained by insisting on the flaunting of my freedom in their presence. I will not say what the issue is - that is irrelevant, but I considered their trust of paramount importance over my liberty to ...

ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2011/8/23 17:29Profile
Creation7
Member



Joined: 2011/8/16
Posts: 159


 Re: Solomon101

The argument isn't about whether or not He drank wine, it is about whether or not he drank old or new wine, and is new wine grapejuice and old wine liquor.

 2011/8/23 17:31Profile
Solomon101
Member



Joined: 2008/4/1
Posts: 531
America's Heartand

 Re:

Creation7-

Again, the verse actually means what it says...regardless of whether is fits into anyones theological box or not.

The wine Jesus said he drank was the wine that got you labeled as a drunkard if you drank too much. The text states this. It is also purposefully drawn as a contrast to the strict dietary laws followed by the sects that John was affiliated with. John DID NOT drink alcohol and was condemned. Jesus DID drink alcohol and was condemned. Not much different today, eh?

The text means what it says. Jesus drank wine. Wine that others would call you a drunk for drinking to much of. That means it had alcohol content.

Rather than attempting to make texts fit into our theology may we be willing to let our theology be radically moved and changed to actually fit into the framework of scripture. If one makes the argument of total abstinence then it could be made from the idea of not offending the brother with a weak conscience.

What "not offending the brother of weaker conscience" means in practice is this- If I am with you then I would never drink alcoholic wine as you have a weaker conscience in this area and it would be wrong of me to offend it. That is not a slight.. I am sure we all have areas of conscience weakness... however, for this topic I would not drink the wine due to your weak conscience. However, if I am not with you then I am not bound by your weak conscience and free to do as my conscience dictates under the scripture and my relationship to Jesus, The Father, and The Holy Spirit.

 2011/8/23 17:42Profile





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