Areadymind,

I understand what you're saying, but I would like to reword it as follows.

We need to have GRACE towards others whose view on a matter is not the same as ours. And yet at the same time, it is still our duty to stand for and proclaim the truth that God has given us (through his word). The Bible says "grace AND truth came by Jesus Christ."

"That will never find any resolution..."??? I beg to differ. I believe the answer to everything is within the pages of that Holy Book and if you study long enough, you'll find it. Of course, I'm not saying all Christian in a church agree on every little thing, but they should on the important things.

Read my sig. lines maybe this will help some folks. savedtoserve, yes I agree the answers are all there, but our understanding of them is not. Again read my sig. lines, hope this helps with this discussion.

_________________
Bill

Sometimes scripture provides us with disclosure on a subject that is provided by those to whom we would be in opposition . For instance when we speak to Christ's declaration of divinity, they may argue (and sometimes vehemently) against what we present, as they see what is presented as a biased presentation on our part. However credence can be found from the most unusual sources. The religious leaders, made up of many factions in Christ day, where of one accord on this and did not miss the fact that Jesus Claimed to be God. Even though they did not believe His deity, they most certainly understood His claim to it. Their understanding of what He said does not prove His deity, but it does make clear His claim to it.

Just as we hear the massive crowd at Pentecost trying to understand the miracle of declaration being declared by those upon whom the H.S alighted. Drunk they were not, for they had not partaken of NEW WINE being still an early hour of the morning. So the crowd (which should be familiar with the difference of grape juice and wine does give us enlightenment as to the meaning of new wine when viewed in this context.

The question I would think we should be asking ourselves is how the abstention of things ties in with the example given in scripture of the new convert conscience being compromised.

Whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, in everything give glory to God
1st Cor 10:31

YOU CANNOT DRINK THE CUP OF THE LORD AND DEMONS
1st Cor 10:21

In this debate of wine and conscience we must understand that these two verse are being tied together. So we must address whether or not it is right to do so.

Is there anything in this that speaks to liberty, if wine is made to fall under the category of the demon cup? So the question is: Is this what scripture is speaking to when it comes to the subject of wine and liberty? Given the above proclamation which is more an ultimatum, we should ask ourselves if this is what scripture is really speaking to? If wine is the cup spoken of that will cause one to look differently upon the God of the new converts salvation as well as the demons they were delivered from, then there is no longer a question of this subject of wine ever being a question of liberty. On the other hand, if this is not what scripture speaks to, then we must examine the dangers that come by lending support to false concepts of righteousness.

So should we examine the dangers (and they are serious dangers) of validating acts done by Christians for the sake of a righteousness not born in Christ? It is a plague that is epidemic where I live and it is so powerful that it would have virtually anyone who would associate themselves with Christ, abstaining from anything and any action that has been codified by local tradition ie the unspoken and unwritten laws that individuals adhere to. Evidenced by the fact that is is not the young in Christ offended but the Elders first and all age groups that would fall below them in descending order. It is not an offense that the indwelling originates but rather an offense that comes by the disenchantment of men that results in false conviction.

It is natural for men to do what is right in their own eyes and they will do many things that they will account to themselves as making them more acceptable to God. Even the children of the world hold up similar acts that they feel will qualify them as good and use it to account their worth in Gods eyes. These things they do in ignorance but we, knowing that these things come naturally to the fallen nature, should be aware not to be seduced by its powerful attraction to the flesh.

Hi savedtoserve:

I made this point in an earlier thread, here's what Paul told Timothy in 1 Timothy 3:

I do hear you, learjet. But you're totally disregarding the distinction of new wine and old wine, which is clearly distinguished in Scripture.

Here are some facts and then some scriptures for ya'll.

Actually I think the Message "Bible" said they called Him a "grape juice bibber".

Krispy