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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Which early church father's works can be trusted?

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Joined: 2011/5/24
Posts: 138

 Thank you

Thank you all for your advice.

Fantastic! We are definitely into expository teaching. I like the statement about which books to recommend ;)

I also liked,
"God does not call men, "early church fathers". Men do. Wr have one Father, all else are brethren."

I really enjoyed the church doctrines/denominations thread. I have come out and had my eyes opened just over a year ago from the extreme Pentecostalism was very tricky as part of the deception I bought into was "soaking" and focusing on the feelings inside (which I can only describe as the self-consciousness BAD stuff...cut long story short...I ended up being deceived by another spirit.

So...for a while last year I had to stay away from everything expect the Bible and I had to be VERY careful even in my prayer life, that I wasn't focusing on "that" feeling...I had to be very very careful. So denominations and what doctrines people believe was very important to us to keep ourselves pure and away from all deception.

Fast forward to now and I have a proper foundation now, and am able to recognise when I need to flee and from what.

I saw the early church fathers mentioned alot on that thread and I knew a little up to now that some had some heretical teaching. It is difficult to accept someone's work when they ended up going in a very bad heretical direction. I guess this may have been the case with Tertullian.

Tertullian wrote a very interesting article called 'Women's apparel". Has anyone read this (with discernment of course:)? I thought it was interesting regardin the culture of how women were treated and what modesty looked like back then.

Does anyone know anything about this article of his? Was this thinking pretty common back then? It is shocking to read now as a woman myself. There are some pretty strong comments about why women are pretty much the weaker creation.

Through Him only

Mrs Carter

 2011/7/31 19:21Profile

Joined: 2004/4/27
Posts: 431
New York

 Re: Thank you

by carters on 2011/7/31 16:21:46

"It is shocking to read now as a woman myself. There are some pretty strong comments about why women are pretty much the weaker creation.

Through Him only

The only difference between a male and a female is the body we inhabit while living on Earth in the flesh.

Lk 20:34-36

34 Jesus said to them, "The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage, but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; for they cannot even die anymore, because they are like angels, and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection."

From the above, I believe we are spirits who inhabit a body, probably at conception. Though our body may be male or female, we are still a spirit inhabiting and operating the machine called a human body. It seems to me that it is the body that will impose either male traits on us if it is a male body, or female traits if it is a female body.

I kinda like that part about how 'we cannot even die anymore'.

Arthur Biele

 2011/8/6 22:30Profile

Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7494

 Re: Which early church father's works can be trusted?

Sherid, I reread your post and as a female perhaps I should comment on this question: "is it ok for us to accept the changes and dress modesty in modern times or should we go back to how things were...and then how far back do we go?"

When one gets to discussing dress on a public forum, things can get unpleasant because we all come from different cultures. So, it is with trepidation that I will attempt to answer your question although my earlier post should lead you to the answer - that of seeking the LORD.

Sometimes I do wish the NT would be specific in exactly how one should dress. In the OT there were some laws given, like no cross dressing - men wearing womens clothes and women wearing men's. Leviticus 18 contains a lot of inspiration on how God regarded the human body, in how it was not to be exposed to others. Some folks today will declare these principles do not apply to moderns because we live under grace. True, we live under grace, but are not given the freedom or license to put a stumbling block in anothers' way. So then, how then should one dress?

We do not find any NT scripture detailing that this principle of dress was ever changed. Perhaps if you study this scripture with the ones in 1Timothy 2 and with the help of your husband, you can arrive at an understanding of what the LORD would have you do. Remember, you will have to personally answer to Him - He will be your enabler.

God bless.

Sandra Miller

 2011/8/11 18:26Profile


Biblically, how a woman dresses should never become heated. Modesty is modesty.
I remember a discussion about "shame-facedness" as well.

1Ti 2:9, 10 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; but (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.

G127 αιδώς aidōs ahee-doce'
Perhaps from G1 (as a negative particle) and G1492 (through the idea of downcast eyes); bashfulness, that is, (towards men), modesty or (towards God) awe: - reverence, shamefacedness.

This same word translated as "shamefacedness" is translated as "Reverence" in this verse -

Heb 12:28,29 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: for our God is a consuming fire.

I love that word "Reverence".

Most of what is written to woman, refers back to the verses about the "angels" ...

Isa 6:2 Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly.

1Co 11:10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.

Having that reverence for GOD and walking in that fear of GOD brings nothing but respect from men and never lust.

It's a heart condition and not just the modest apparel that keeps a woman a Proverbs 31 woman.

I've met women from the southern "holiness" crowd with the long hair, long dresses, no make-up and no jewelry but the women were hard and cold as stone, because their outward presentation was only under some form of legalism that would only make them 'appear' holy, who's demeanor shouted "holier than thou" but that attitude produced such hatred in their hearts and seen in their eyes for anyone who didn't look like them, and that reverence that comes from knowing Him couldn't be seen through that hatred.
So it's not just the way a woman dresses, though it includes that, but it's that reverence for GOD that causes shamefacedness before men, that men really pick up on, with the modesty in dress.
That's the inward beauty that Peter spoke of and the beauty of the reverence that the angels have - Isa 6:3 And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, Holy, Holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of His glory.

Amen, GOD Bless.

 2011/8/12 1:03

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