| Poster | Thread |
| | Re: | | They won't come to church, so how do we reach them? We need to do what Jesus did, and go to them where they are. If there is a better way, I am sure we are all open.
My only concern is this, if we don't reach out to them then who will? |
|  2004/12/21 16:23 | |
| | Re: | | I know this, whether we agree with their methods or not, or whether we believe a gay festival is the best place of outreach or not, our brethren are facing 47 years in prison and they clearly do not deserve this! Therefore, all I ask is that we pray for these Christians. |
| | 2004/12/21 16:42 | | RobertW
Member
Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri
| | Re: | | Quote:
They won't come to church, so how do we reach them?
I think we would all agree that ministy should reach well beyond the four walls of the Church. I am amazed at how God is starting to open doors to put me in the path of folks like Bro. Jesse, Bro Greg, Bro. Josh, and a host of others here on SI that have been a real inspiration that I have been able to passon to others. As a matter of fact, our pastor is dismissing services to go Sunday to reach out to the street people in downtown KC. We also added another home for shut-ins to our outreach. We can minister the Gospel to them in the streets and in doors as the Spirit leads. Sometimes we try to help them with their needs, other times we just present the Gospel. There is no real cookie cutter way. We need the Holy Spirit in each endeavor as each will need a tailor cut plan.
God bless,
-Robert
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Robert Wurtz II
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| | 2004/12/21 16:57 | Profile | thaimp
Member
Joined: 2004/12/21
Posts: 3
| | Re: | | I am not sure I would characterize what these folks were doing as "reaching out" or "ministering".
Christ's ministry was one that spoke to those that were willing to listen, not one that forced the truth into their midst. He would simply begin to speak, and those willing to hear him would stop and listen - he didn't force his message on anyone.
However, even though I don't think these Christians were doing the will of God, I still think it is their Constitutional right to speak their mind and express their religion. They should not be punished for peaceably expressing their views - even if their motivation for doing so is a mistaken belief that God wants them to do it. |
| | 2004/12/21 17:31 | Profile | thaimp
Member
Joined: 2004/12/21
Posts: 3
| | Re: | | RobertW,
By the way, what is a "shut-in"?
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| | 2004/12/21 17:33 | Profile |
| | Re: | | quote: "Christ's ministry was one that spoke to those that were willing to listen"
That is very true. Although, that wasn't always the case with the ministry of Jesus. The first sermon Jesus preached made the people so angry that they tried to throw him off a cliff. Thank God that didn't happen in Philly! But Jesus knew they would get angry, but He preached to them anyways. Also Paul, after the guards took him away because the crowd wanted to kill him, asked permission to speak to the angry crowds and amazingly he was permitted. But his sermon only made the angry crowd even madder. Stephan also preached to a mob that didn't like what he was saying and eventually killed him.
Think about it, if Christians only preached to those who wanted to listen then there would never be such a thing as a Christian martyr. Why would there be?
The bible says to preach "in season and out of season" which means as the bible says, "Tell them 'Thus saith the Lord' whether they hear, or whether they refuse."
Eze 2:7 - You shall speak My words to them, whether they hear or whether they refuse, for they are rebellious.
Eze 3:11 - And go, get to the captives, to the children of your people, and speak to them and tell them, 'Thus says the Lord God,' whether they hear, or whether they refuse."
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| | 2004/12/21 18:13 | | dougkristen
Member
Joined: 2004/1/28
Posts: 360
| | Re: | | I think as Robert there needs to be a "both and" type of ministry, Street, open-air preaching AND "ministering" as some have described. I have "ministered" to many homosexuals and sexually addicted on www.settingcaptivesfree.com ministry's web site and some people are just plan old love their sin more than God. They are double minded! But being double minded and captive to your sin, doesn't prevent someone from still preaching the truth to them. Homosexual addicition/perversion of sin is a thick chain around someones neck, full of pride and some people may need to get their backside hit and others may need to be reached by someone who is loving an nuturing. The Holy Spirit knows, but I know from my ministry experience to homosexual's, even being loving does not work, even after they have acquired HIV or AIDS. The gospel has to be preached. And sodomy is the sin on the streets to day that has to be preached against.
Grace,
Doug
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a Jesus freak
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| | 2004/12/21 18:55 | Profile | crsschk
Member
Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA
| | Re: | | Quote:
In some ways I have to agree, the society we are living in IS godless and doesnt stand for what is right, moral and true. I am not saying people shouldnt go open-air preach, etc but the same principle could be in place if homosexuals or satanists wanted to go and preach infornt of your home or church. I am sure I could get myself into jail quite quickly if I knew the right buttons to push.. but rather we need to "minister" to people.
There is something troublesome about this as I have been following it. The sense of what was set out to be accomplished? There seems to be an air of provoking and then defending 'rights' as if that was the purpose. It leaves one wondering just what effect this had on those that they were trying to reach, or were they really trying to reach anyone?
Before anyone pick's up stones what I am trying to get at is put yourself into the shoes of those participants who are in the midst of the devil's kingdom which we all came out of for a minute. What would be your impression? Would any of this cause you to leave your lifestyle or even challenge your conscious?
Wouldn't a better impression been left if upon first confrontation with authority (see
[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=4063&forum=33]Authority and submission[/url] ) that they quitely disperssed leaving the pink people with nothing to do and in effect showing that instead of being more concerned about our so called 'rights' that we are a people under authority, given by God?
All this just appears to be picking a fight for the sake of picking a fight and leaving an [i]impression[/i] that Christians are really not all that concerned about what they profess to be concerned about.
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Mike Balog
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| | 2004/12/22 8:56 | Profile | crsschk
Member
Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA
| | Re: | | Quote:
However, even though I don't think these Christians were doing the will of God, I still think it is their Constitutional right to speak their mind and express their religion. They should not be punished for peaceably expressing their views - even if their motivation for doing so is a mistaken belief that God wants them to do it.
I agree with that as well. Maybe this little illustration...
Early on in this walk my wife and I attended, brace yourself here, a Metallica concert ( I had won tickets) when they played with the San Francisco Orchestra. As we waited outside in line to get in there were some rather angry worded sign carrying 'Christians' walking about, "God hates..." and so forth. Can still recall looking at them and wondering "is this really accomplishing anything?" No one in the crowd was hostile towards them, most seemed to be just ignoring them. Met eyes with one of them and being so new as a born again believer didn't know what to say, think there may have been a twinge of conviction whether I should have been there or not but it just seemed that there was more hatred being shown than concern instead of the other way around. Hesitate to say this, giving the wrong impression, but the striking thing was that though they were fairly vocal when we first got there, the whole time we were in line they never said a word. Could just have been a coincidence but it seemed the Holy Spirit was working on both of us that day as I observed them and they observed us (all of us for that matter).
All this may not pertain to this particular situation but just wanted to try and bring to remembrance what we all have come out of in some form or fashion.
_________________
Mike Balog
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| | 2004/12/22 9:36 | Profile | RobertW
Member
Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri
| | Re: | | Quote:
By the way, what is a "shut-in"?
That is a blanket term we use to describe the good folks who would come to Church if they were able. Something is keeping them 'shut-in' (as it were) where they live. This would be nursing homes, assisted living homes, half-way houses, jails, etc. Sometimes folk are constrained to a certain facility by law and others by their frail health.
Nursing homes are a particularly forgotten ministry. Sometimes during Christmas they get some attention, but by and large they are forgotten. Our ministry to these people right now could soar into a multitude of opportunities to share Christ if we had the dedicated, and Holy Spirit 'called' laborers. I believe many are called to this ministry and refuse to answer the calling.
There is no glory towards man in these places. We go in and sing the old timey hymns and preach a short message. We then pray for them. You may minister for years and never see a single response from a person. Then one day you get a call and they are very ill and an opportunity arises to again share Christ. We have operated for 10 years on the belief that if there is breath in their lungs there is hope. Many have been saved in the closing days of their life. it is a literal 'snatching of souls out of the burning.' Some of these folks have one foot in hell and another on a banana peeling. We 'snatch' as many as we can from the burning on average of 9 times a month.
Yet others we minister to are in half-way like homes. One man named Steve was crying last Thursday and asked us to pray for him. He held up his arms and pulled back his sleeves and said, "I'm tired of doing this!" He had slit his wrists many times over. We prayed for him for deliverance and will continue to minister to him.
Beloved, there are doors open everywhere to reach souls as long as we consider that every soul is of an equal value in the eyes of Christ. Young or old or rich or poor. They are all souls that need Salvation.
God Bless,
-Robert
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Robert Wurtz II
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| | 2004/12/22 9:57 | Profile |
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