| Re: |
unintentional dual posting deleted
| 2011/7/4 13:29|
| Re: |
The grace and peace to all from our King and prince of peace, the Lord Jesus Christ.
It's been just over a year since finding this place.
Not by my own plans nor devising,
this place ordained cyber-home
--(til' God by whatever means sends me elsewhere, in cyber-space at least)--
has turned out to be quite the ride:
--the Spirit's leed into/through prayer in ways that vary so much compared to the--american 'christian' cult-ural--norm, be it: HIS intents compared to what i wrongly think or would do naturally, places, times, manners and types of, etc. . .
--time and again seeing how wrong i have been
--Biblical revelations that just keep on popping up ( learning meekness. questioning myself and my own motives, yet pressing Bible issues not surely sound),
--seeing SO MANY varied perspectives,
( from we who FTMP at least claim to believe the same thing)
(often from peeps who think it's their way or the highway)
--learning to reasonably communicate such subjects of passion
(without letting deep seated feelings, reasons, or even personal intentions hamper "bodybuilding", self-control, and straightforeward speech speech
--how we learn to talk together without slamming doors in each others faces
--trusting God to reach out through words read, not to just touch, but to grip and break and change our hearts
--and so much more
So much for the once rough and tumble rock em' sock em' let the bodies hit the floor and the chips fall where they may man's man, gregg.
(Then Travis brought the good ole' JGL word back to mind)--> i'm one of the 'godmen' now, and every single day since i was 14 life got tougher, but major abundance comes with it.
(Oh thank you Lord for a name that is written in your book of life and the seal of your Spirit to evidence faithfulness beyond man in me).
Once it was thought there never could be a gathered group, time, or place in cyberspace that would trigger yours truly to:
be knocking, seeking, finding all the time
so pour out this heart to God,
with brothers and sisters who really care, too:
laugh and cry;
sharing the joy in this life's sojourn with so many
or the light we walk into,
coming to know Him more clearly on the way.
Often it feels just as real as IRL
(i'm wondering if this is not due to prayer with this fellowship and taking up others concerns as mine?)
Thank you Yeshua!
Thank you Greg and fellow supporters of His ministry through SI.
Thank you brothers and sisters in His body!
"God is a community."
. . .in one spirit. . .
. . .and my brain just exploded.
Ya' know Brother,
Some (who think they know better)
have been heard telling others that expressing emotions in the ways we relate with God and issues relative concerning our outward expressions are of the flesh BAGROFLOL--be it praise through song, worship, prayer, etc , and they choose to shake their heads in disdain, or turn away, and say stuff like, "those people are sensationalists", etc.--
Was Jesus emotional?
What kind of a stuffy God do they think He is anyway?
When we try to limit God to our reasoning are we really serving Him with all we've got?
It's often wondered what these half-human advocates thinks Loving God
--(1st) with ALL YOUR HEART, (2nd) with ALL YOUR SOUL and so on--
We look at David, the man after God's own heart
and we see a person who has no regard
and even truly distain those who are reserved in any way
when it comes to God.
Do they know the meaning of the 13 Hebrew words translated as praise:
leaping and laughing and crying and gushing and shouting and jumping and clapping and so on?
Who is really letting the cart drive the horse?
Shouldn't we share in King David's spirit???
Who made our feelings anyway?
Who created in us this ability to share heartfelt affection?
These things make for strong ties and communion with both God and man.
Honestly, i really pray in concern for those who show no first love fruit: our affection and feelings foremost towards God and talking with anyone whoever they are about our Jesus.
Have they ever stopped to add 1+2?
1. "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom"
2. "The fruit of righteousness is the tree of life, and he that wins souls is wise."
Fear of the Lord is an emotion
i don't know about anybody else really, but the one thing being born again impressed on me more than all else was becoming part of Jesus and El forever.
*phaney ponders for a very brief moment and suddenly a song of Chris Tomlin's plays out loudly inside him like it were on speakers outside him*
I'm caught in the half-light
I'm caught alone
Waking up to the sunrise
and the radio
Feels like I'm tied up.
What's holdin' me?
Just praying today
will be the day
I go free
and l wanna' live like there's no tomorrow,
i wanna' dance like no one's around
i wanna sing like nobody's listening
'fore I lay my body down
i'm gonna' give like i have plenty
i'm wanna' love like i'm not afraid
I wanna be the man i was meant to be
I wanna be the way i was made.
I'm made in Your likeness:
I'm made with Your hands.
I'm made to discover
Who You are
and who I am. . .
. . .and all I've forgotten,
help me to find
all that you promise:
Let it be in my life
I wanna be the way I was made
I wanna' be the way i was made
I wanna' be the way i was made
Back to the thing first brought up.
God's been making it clearer and clearer to me that to not allow our feelings to be expressed outwardly to God, whether alone or around others is as shameful as not testifying and showing others how God works in our lives.
It's heart and soul first, not second, and definitely not not at all.
The mind and strength are to follow All your heart and soul, and not vice versa.
Who is really getting the cart before the horse?
Others can keep on living their faith like they're walking backwards down the stairs, but it's a whole lot simpler going foreward (speaking from experience).
i will propose the opposite to be true:
It is not our affections and emotions towards God that are so fleshly.
Rather, it's our mind that can be more fleshly and is directly tied to the flesh.
(if anybody doesn't believe this, just cut off your head and see how your flesh functions.)
BTW, have you listened to the sermon here on renewing the mind by Richard Sipley yet?
Thanks bunches for going back and re-reading.
i don't know how you intended it to come across but your summary speaks volumes.
_ 8^) _
My sister Jolene
--(Jim, you may recognize the 4'11" person i am talking about if you spent any time with Len at Last Days)--
told me one time that when we know as we are known, on that day of Bema, we will all realize we were all wrong.
"Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
I Cor. 15.50/ John 3.6 / I Corinthians 13.12,
Hi Jim P!
Sincere apologies for not giving you proper recognition when you said hi the first time. i should have and i do apologize Brother. Out of all the text written and read on these Godhead threads, your comments are closest to my personal sentiments . Of these things you have written, your words are the epitome of how i feel about all this, and deserve to be considered by all:
((somewhat) edited and combined as one : then my own end comments from an earlier page (from this thread))
"...in the beginning God...Jesus was the word spoken by the Father ... john 1 and esp heb 1...spoke in times past by the apostles and prophets, has in these last days spoken unto to us by Son...alpha and omega are the alphabeta in greek ... and the Spirit hovered...
i know these things and have been studying for 45 yrs. and know less now than when i was 30. . . when i was 35 i had all this figured out but now i am in my 70s and am overwhelmed by the grandure of God and do not have a clue how to fit him in my test tube to examine Him...what about Christophanies and the seven Spirits of God and so many more things i will not go into here. . . God can do and be whatever He wants to do or be ergo the seven Spirits of God. if you can figure Him out and explain everything then your god is too small. i have to let God be whatever He wants to be...God is love and he who abides in love abides in God...with love jimp"
(Form is not the issue and neither is whether we have his name right. What is most important is where is the core of our affections<--heart-- in relation(ship) to(wards) God, for without faith(fulness) in God, it is impossible to satisfy Him. (What are our thoughts and intentions in seeking God?)
Because God is spirit, however we recognize Him, if what we reason and/or feel to be true does not agree with His revelation of Himself through the Word of God, both in scripture with the living Christ Jesus, logos with rhema, we are decieving ourselves and lying to everybody else about it.
Looking at those questions the first time in one of the other previous threads, they were not answered because not only had i not thought about those questions, but those questions at that time seemed to me to deny that Jesus never changes. Now it's recognized you are just adamant that God is three persons as one.
(read the text at the end of this post: "IS GOD REALLY A PERSON AT ALL", then tell me what you think)
The answers ro your questions will be kept simple with little proof why they were answered the way they were, and i'll await your reply. Then i'll respond with Biblical evidence.
Was it the Holy Spirit that hung on the Cross?
Jesus hung on the cross. The Holy Spirit was in Him and with Him.
What Ghost did Jesus give up at His death?
Since Jesus is Holy, wasnt it the Holy Ghost?
If Jesus is God, how could the Holy Spirit come upon Him at His baptism of John?
Was his flesh God?
Is the another Comforter the Holy Spirit or not?
Yes, the adjective "comforter" is referring to the adjective "holy" with the indefinite pronoun "spirit."
We need to look at the context of that passage and find out which possible (Gk.)meaning for that word "another" is exhibited in that context. (As well we know that the Bible does not contradict itself, so this part of John 14 has to agree with all the passages relative to the spirit of God.)
Jesus is not talking about different unrelated things in Jn. 14. It all fits together as one subject.
Is the Spirit of Christ in our rebirth the same as the Another Comforter, Jesus ask the Father to send to us?
Yes, the difference being inside rather than along side, respectively.
And He will not leave us either and will come to us?
"and. . .either. . ." as in "and/or. . .either/and?/or..." ???
Please explain this more clearly. (It's thought you were expecting a different answer above.)
Father, Son, Holy Spirit; One God, three manifested natures and Jobs to do in the believers life.
Can you tell me why the spirit of God in the Old Testament, which is 80+% of the Bible is always referred to with a definite article that is not masculine, but is rather a feminine definite article?
Spirit is not person and it is not nature.
Spirit is "essence" as in "binding-life-force"
It's manifestation is represented as "power" noted to manifest in various ways physically.
Ciy:Father, sends the incorruptable Seed
and we become born again. The Son, He is the incorruptable Seed, for without His Spirit we are none of His. The Holy Spirit is the power of the Seed of Christ from the Father who shows us all things that Jesus said and did and even things we don't understand.
g: Reading this above last statement we 'almost' completely agree
In Christ, the Father through the Holy Spirit:
g: This is my point exactly with the addition that: and this Holy Spirit is the spirit of Jesus (and because he is in our Father and our Father in Him, with the spirit of the Lord Christ Jesus we have the Father. Jesus said, "no man comes to the Father but by me." He did not say, " The Father comes to no man but by me." Further down in the passage (vv. 11, 13, 18-21,23, 26) Jesus explains the process in specifics
Just like the virgin Birth, The Seed of Christ in Mary by the Father and given power by the Holy Spirit to bring forth a Son, Just like us as sons'.
"Christ in you the Hope of Glory"
Phillip, going through this has hinted at a few misunderstandings (on whose part?)with this John 14 text. Let's continue for the sake of correct understanding.
Anyway, can you admit that Jesus came to the House of Israel as a prophet and that what he said from start to finish was prophecy (by Hebrew standards?)
If so, show me one place in the bible, when prophecy is use as foretelling the future (and not just encouraging exhorting and edifying), that the one prophecying spoke of the future in first person possive tense.
You need to look at John 14-16 as clear prophecy in the fullest sense of the word and re-examing everything you are saying in light of this.
Jesus is not speaking about the Holy Spirit in the first person singular (posessive) because it has not happened yet.
And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment; That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ; Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God. . .
Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice. For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ. . .
Phillipians 1.9-11, 18f-19
(there are several passages in Acts that should have been translated as "the spirit of Jesus," (like the last phrase in the passage above above), either by inference or actual greek wording. Why this has not been done one can only speculate; however, it is known most translators look to former translations for guidelines, and as well, translators tend to adhere to what they think something should really say according to the belief system they espouse.)
You need to find yourself a literal Bible somewhere, and i have no suggestions as to where because i don't have one, save in one Hebrew lexicon currently in possession.
Jesus is full of Himself which is the Holy Ghost,(" in whom dwells the fullness of the Godhead bodily." Col. 2.9/ Rom. 1.20) Jesus, while talking to His disciple Nic, in John 3.13 said, " And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even THE SON OF MAN which IS IN HEAVEN. Though Jesus who is Holy, emptied Himself of all that is God in Him, He did not release HIS SPIRIT from HIS BODY or he would have no longer been a living soul. The Spirit that came upon Him (without measure) was the power and glory of God, His lifeforce within manifesting without.
Spirit is not something that can be contained in a carton. It may reside in the carton, but it certainly does not stay there. Ecclesiastes says ALL ruach/called spirit--->[(only by Western (std.) mindset) (due to graeco-roman philosophic mythos/magickal world view/belief systems], returns to God, contrary to what most think, confusing soul for spirit.
Jesus not having the spirit that is in man(,his flesh the seed of woman)--being God, this fact is all that much more true: with the power to lay down His life and pick it up again.
Please think on these things in relation to what was replied 'Phillip'.
Renouncer, Chris, and R. Banks,
Because of the inferences you have made and various attempts to dissuade me from these threads and even totally misjudging intentions, everyone will be told some of the causitive purposes in the various threads in stating what has been learned through scripture about Godhead.
Chris, i'm still working on a comprehensive reply to your posting.
Rbanks, there is more that could be said but it's hoped this is sufficient for now.
At the onset about all this, it was God's rhema to me while in meditation on scripture (logos). Since then, progressively a fuller view of both the being and character of God have unfolded from Genesis to Revelation.
Towards the end of 2010, i began repetitiously going through the 5 books of John per the direction of God's Holy Spirit OF MY LORD, JESUS CHRIST. This has not yet ceased as revelation after revelation comes through memorizing and meditating on these books has been so fruitful.
IN THE MEANWHILE
God has brought an active UCOG elder and an elder of the JW's from this town into my company, and in each instance, we have agreed that if we cannot find whatever should be found not in all the codex texts, that we will disgard it, --(reason mentioned below regarding the Aramaic)--that we will go with the majority. The purpose in this is mostly:
--the UCOG guy will realize that water baptism is not salvific, but Jesus Christ is our redemption, salvation, santification, and glorification.
--the JW guy will clearly see that Yeshua of the NT is Yaweh of the OT
*Jesus is winning. We all have changed views about many different things, all according to the revelation from the spirit of Jesus in the Bible( . . .and intercession)*
So, this is requested here too: that all of you will pray that both of these 'persons' will come to rely on Jesus Christ alone as their salvation while God's Spirit moves as we are pouring through His written word.
[As well, there are two mormon girls: missionaries that God is working on: one new and one that first lighted the steps to our household months ago. This is the second round, and it seems that God's spirit it shining light in her soul too (because it was found out that they were advised not to return here after the last time we went completely through their little week by week schpielz.]
Though there really isn't time to explain full details right now, suffice it to say that a large majority of personal Bible research was done in two locales:
Loyola University Library in New Orleans and the Divinity School Library at Vanderbilt University in Nashville.
(Nothing written of my comments on these threads is from the internet. i am not a college graduate of any sort, but God has given me an almost photographic memory and the ability to catch on to things quickly--after my brains were scrambled in 1985.
(still i tend to be, as dad says, "smart as a whip and dumb as a post.")
. . .anyway. . .
Through befriending certain students God brought into my path from fall1985 to winter1989, i learned what it is to be a Jesuit, and most importantly, that most of the New Testament was first written in Aramaic. . .and Koine' Greek is a choppy--and at times a misunderstanding of Aramaic words--substitute in the resultant translation(s).
?IS GOD REALLY A PERSON AT ALL?
i am not trying to push anything but a scriptural basis for the things we claim we believe.
What is asked is that all who participate will understand the meanings parcel in what they tell themselves and others, as well as provide a clear scriptural basis for what they proclaim. Finally, that all posting maintain a prayerful attitude in their posted text before they write on this thread . . .please???
Nobody has to try to prove trinity to me, as in three persons, because nowhere does the Bible say there are three persons that compose Godhead.
If you want to consider God a persona ( the word meaning and implying:mask, guise, ruse, fascade etc), you have a tough row to hoe with me.
The Greek word for person is 'prosopon' and it's meaning is nearly identical to the Latin (personae)which came from it: a frontside view of outward countenance/the appearance of a being--->not the nature, character, or essence of that being.
None of these words mean anything like that.
The Hebrew words used for this concept share in various aspects of this definition<--(this is stated in reference to the Greek word our english word "person" eventually morphed into).
In the Old Testament there is a repeat of one phrase that makes it very clear that God is not a person, and although most English translators have used the word 'man', this word, if it were translated literally according to meaning and intent of the word, these two O.T. statements should read as follows:
"GOD IS NOT A PERSON (that he should lie)"
"GOD IS NOT A PERSON (that he should repent)"
The word 'person' implies giving an appearance that does not really represent the character of an individual. Whether one assigns to God or anyone else the ideas of person, personality or personae, this is not an individuals character. (. . .and don't think for one iota of a moment that the Roman Catholic Theologians Theophilus, Tertullian, or Origen (who got the ball rolling for the trinitarian deception) did not realize what they were doing when they ascribed to God the idea of even being a person at all. These guys were all expert linguists. They lied through their teeth.)
Again, in Exodus, when Moses was talking to God asking to see His glory, God told Him, "no man can see my 'countenance' and live."
Who on earth has the right to say God is a person at all, if anyone that has seen God's 'face' has not lived to talk about it???
Think about that glory on judgement day folks.
Our God is a consuming fire, He the same One who created nuclear fission.
We will all be judged for every word we put forth.
Lord have mercy!
Who can stand?
said it once and i'll say it again:
(these are interesting times)
No posts have been read since last response from here, so responses to those that followed, Lord willing, will come later.
In the name of Yeshua ha' Maschiach,
GOD BLESS US EVERYONE!
Thank you Lord.
| 2011/7/4 13:30|
| Re: |
This is what I wrote: "In Christ, by the Father, Life in the Son and Holy Spirit Revealer and Teacher of the Mind of Christ we now have."
Not; You wrote: """In Christ, the Father through the Holy Spirit:"""
What ghost did Jesus give up? It could not have been the Eternal Spirit of God that He was. It could only have been the soul of the body of flesh that was made for Him.
That is where the Holy Spirit works in our soul and in the soul of Jesus Christ also.
That is why the Word of God separates the body, soul and spirit, that we have life in the Spirit, mind will and intellect in the soul and the flesh container that is a created pot of clay. The Holy Spirit works in the mind, the Spirit of Christ is life. The Holy Spirit is the revealer of this truth. The Spirit of God is One in the God head. The Holy Spirit sent by God to the believer to live in us forever, is the One Jesus prayed for to give us truth and understanding of Who Jesus Christ Himself truly is in the believer. New Life, a new creature, no more creatures with Satan as our father, but the Father of Jesus Christ who is God the Father now that He has an only begotten Son and by Him now is our Father also, "Pray in this manner", Our Father.
The Comforter bears witness and we also bear witness that Jesus is come and He is God, the only begotten Son of the Father.
Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
John 15:26-27 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.
This Comforter is not the Spirit of Christ, but sent from the Father, to teach us who the Son is; The Spirit of truth.
WE are three part beings as God is three parts, The Holy Spirit being the revealer of this truth.
Hebrews 4:12-13 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.
We are made partakers of the Holy Spirit and know that He may abide with and in you for ever. Not that He should remain with you for a few years, as Jesus did, and then leave you, but The Holy Spirit will be with you in all places to the close of eternity. He shall be your constant guide and attendant. The professor of Truth and never speaking of Himself but by what Jesus has Said and done in His life and in ours to come.
Quote: you wrote; """Jesus is not speaking about the Holy Spirit in the first person singular (posessive) because it has not happened yet."""
No, but because the Holy Spirit is a dove and will not force Himself on any believer, we must seek Him for truth.
More later, Happy Fourth of July.
In Christ: Phillip
| 2011/7/4 18:11||Profile|
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Because of being sure, the title of this thread has been changed. Currently, there is progressive knowledge here from scripture in reconstructing the doctrine of Godhead.
From the onset of this whole revelation found in scripture without the theological clap-trap preserved and reinforced by unquestioning sheeple, this has been an exercise in working through all the various scriptures relative to God's revelation of Himself through YH(Sh)VH.
All of every one of God's revelations made manifest to man have only come through Christ Jesus the Lord, who has declared the end since the beginning.
Everything else is hogwash!
First off, thanks for the independence day well wishing. It's hoped yours was all the snap crackle pop--(and we're not talking rice crispies)--that a 4th of July should be.
Not thinking this to be an entertainment forum by any stretch of what some imagine, you are being given time to do as you state: "more later."
. . .but down to brass tacks. . .
You have written alot of things that do not even
--at least to current knowledge and wisdom, coupled with understanding in and recieved from the spirit of Jesus through scripture--
Why isn't a scriptural basis be provided for what is typed by them there fingers of yours?
You have been so adamant about what becomes text in these threads, yet some things just fly in the face of scripture.
Back about 10 mo? ago you put something up about 'possessing your vessel',(if recalled correctly, commentary by Gabelien on that passage in Thess.)and reading that, it was so wondered why any person would believe that. . .especially those who follow the spirit of Jesus' lead in them.
(There is only one vessel that is your vessel and that is the 'tabernacle' you yourself are now 'camping' in. Nothing else in this life is your own. . .and even this is to be a living sacrifice HOLY AND ACCEPTABLE offered to God. If we are indeed redeemed, even we are not our own, but what christian possesses anyone elses body anyway?)
Phillip, the trinitarian deception, to the best of our knowledge, was unheard of until just before 200 A.D. Even then, it was just an incomplete set of ideas and nobody yet said God was three persons.
People should recognize one fact that stands above all others in relation to this, as well as any other falsehood:
The further from the river's source, the more polluted the stream becomes.
Why do so many say, "I WILL determine whether this be of God or not" instead of just getting alone with God, and bow down to ask Him to reveal Himself through the scripture and then prove us in it via the daily grind.
Now look what's happened. We see far too many religionists of the head without their heart turned to Jesus Christ as the basis for all they recieve from God in their life: being, doing, and having.
(What gives anybody following Jesus (that is to say, 'led of the spirit') the notion that these should be followed or even endorsed?
Men who did not fear God, yet remaining faithful towards the great harlot, The Mother of Abominations, have concieved in their own minds many things to make Thee Faith smooth--not unlike so many Pharissees of y-eraz gone by.
Prayers here are that all take into account what scripture really says instead of what men are saying about scripture. If so, we could do away with alot of traditions of men that do not draw anyone closer to either Christ or His doctrine. If we all will just do this one thing alot of controversy that is evidenced by more than 1500 '?christian?' sects will over time become a thing of the past.
(who doesn't want unity of the faith, instead of fractured factions so named demoninnations?)
'Phillip' you can take as much time as it takes.
If we look at the Bible and find a congruent Genesis to Revelation teaching of the Bible that does not have Jesus as both the beginning, the middle, and the end of it, it is something that comes from half-cocked minds that cannot recieve the truth, reprobate in their own special way.
Not knowing how long the 'later' is that you mentioned, and still working on response to Chris, only because there is little time to type right now, things that just seem to strike me as way off:
Jesus body is not a spirit, and neither is His soul (He came IN THE LIKENESS OF)and look at what you imply 'that the 'ghost' he (his physical soul expression) gave up was not the eternal spirit. (How else could he die?????)
Are you walking in that ancient heresy of the gnostics: The spirit of God came in the appearance of a body, but was not a body???
(Phillip, soul is not spirit and spirit is not soul!)
Over 80 % of the Bible (the OT) reveals that man is four parts and God is one. This argument about we're three parts so God is three parts does not stand.
...if the comforter is not Jesus' spirit, then who is it that is the friend that sticks closer than a brother?
Now are other things that need attending to here, however before ending this post, just a comment on your end comment:
" the Holy Spirit is a dove and will not force Himself on any believer, we must seek Him for truth."
If Jesus is the truth, and the paraclete holy spirit is this spirit of truth, how can anyone say that this Holy Spirit is not Jesus' spirit?
(There is no truth to us apart from Jesus!)
There is also grave misgnomer about this gentleman business too. Out of all the birds that exist, the dove is seen as the most territorial. If one comes into His territory, doing what they should not do there, intruding where unbidden, the intruder becomes victim to a swft plucking out of their eyes, and if the transgressor does not have enough sense to get away from there after that, this lone bird will pluck their blinded victim to death.
The spirit of God is like the wind and no man can say anything will or will not be forced into or away from anything, believer or not, by the Holy Spirit of Jesus.
. . .and if somebody has the nerve to even dare tread on this dove-like Spirit's turf, well consider Annanias and Saphaira or King Herod (in Acts) as two prime examples of how gentle this dove really is, believer or not, respectively.
| 2011/7/11 17:08|
| Re: |
God is One. I address Him as God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. This does not make three individuals like you, me and the president. Jesus told us to pray this way, "Our Father". We pray to our Father in the name of the Son. The Holy Spirit is not the Spirit of Christ, although the Spirit of Christ is Holy, as is God the Father. If we don't separate the body, soul and spirit, why are we to the Father as sons'. How do we learn the mind of Christ unless we are taught in our soul-mind. Our Spirit is perfect before the Father, our soul-mind is becoming perfect as the Holy Spirit teaches us this Mind which was in Christ Jesus and is now in us.
Sorry, I cannot see the Holy Spirit being the Spirit of Christ The incorruptable Seed (Sperma of God the Father)that is born again in us and making us sons of God.
I know the Spirit of Christ is Holy, but the Holy Spirit is not Christ of the Cross WHO, He gave up the Ghost to purchase you and me and all those that are given to Jesus Christ, by whom only the Father can give Him and He will not loose even one, except Judas. One God, three manifestations of Himself as He deals with man.
In Christ: Phillip
| 2011/7/11 20:08||Profile|
| Re: |
Phillip, this is all new revelation to me, and i myself am learning as i go. It's one thing to be able to accept something revealed by the spirit after seeing it again and again in the sriptures, and another to spell out all the details as if this were something understood for years. . .
. . .this is to say, i don't understand that yet sometimes, and other times with certain things i may.
Being raised mostly in evangelical churches affiliate with the Missionary Alliance, it was strange to take Confirmation (what is to Catholics Chatechism)in the Swedish Missionary Alliance Church (up in Minnesota). i was force fed and memorized the Westminster Catechism along with the doctrines of that church.
I attended church with Steve Saint, in Wilmar. Though it was even then no longer called SWMA but was known as The Covenant Church. They are responsible for starting the now godless University in Chicago called Northwestern. If you know a little about missions, that name should ring a bell.
Though they seemed more evangelical in statement, i told dad back then they always reminded me of Lutherans or closer to Presberterians (sp?) who used liturgy alot and not Missionary Alliance.
Dad was often heard saying,"Gregg, no man has a corner on the truth and there is good and bad in everything out of whomevers mouth. Look to the scriptures as your guide." This time after saying that, he enrolled me in a Bible class with the ultra-fundamentalist in town:Third Baptists.
Things seemed to be going from dry to drier.
(Still, all these churches are trinitarian. . .and don't think this religious philosophy wasn't ingrained in me memorizing and reciting the Westminster.)
i'm just trying to give you a handle on what belief has been dropped to latch onto to this Bible truth. Belief in trinity by me
(as if God were three entities)
was continued in until seeing the close relationship between the Holy Spirit with who Jesus is and what he does.
Last night in the middle of the night i awoke first worshipping Jesus, then prayed that God open both our eyes so through this we all together (everybody)can end up on the same page.
(Phillip, if i do not continue to follow the spirit's lead in this, i could really come up with some whacked out ideas. i'm speaking when spoken to and letting everybody inon how this is revealed to me.)
[it's wished someone would PM me about this and say yeah, i understand this and loearned it from the scriptures by His spirit. (
The closest to this truth of the Holy Spirit has been heard here is that Bill McLeod sermon first post this thread;
BUT THEN YESTERDAY AFTER downloading and listening through all Mark Case's messages here, seems we are tight in agreement. (If not for his voice, some of those messages sound like exact duplicates to what i proclaim here. We must read the same book and have the same Spirit helping both of us pray and say)
After last night's/morning's worship and petition, two things were brought to remembrance for our help:
1st--> Jesus was ordained both Lord and Christ before the foundation of the world. Jesus never changes. Though emptied of His glory, born of the woman's seed, he was still both Lord and Christ. On the cross He was still both Lord and Christ
2nd--> is in regards to my comment about what Jesus said on earth is indeed prophecy(, so all His words (including John 14) need be looked at as prophecy):
(The scene of John and Peter at the gate Beautiful, and that leper ending up walking and leaping and praising God came to mind . . .so this was looked up and read, then coming to the following, the reason for this being brought to imagination became clear)
"For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days. Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities."
Also recall Revelation 19.10 ". . .worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."
Just one thing that really bugs me when you say, God the Holy Spirit and you probably understand why already: Since the Holy Spirit is understood (here at least) to be the everywhere present spirit of Jesus, how can it be called God. Where is this in the Bible?
I see SPIRIT is OF GOD, but never is God's spirit called God.
Consider the Hebrew analogy of ruach to Greek pneuma, being breath or wind or spirit. (actually, the word piture for ruach is whirlwind and is used as the word to typify the emotions and feelings (of man's heart) and not his own personal spirit at all. If we stay true to the Oriental worldview through with both the New and Old testament are framed, the lives breathed into Adam, from the breath of God does not suddenly become our spirit to posess.
We are borrowers. No man is the life of the spirit loaned to them:
". . .Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. . ."
Second consider breath. God breathes ("into Adamah the breathS of life". . .but what God breathed out, does that remain God or is it just of/from God?
If it does remain God, then every man has the spirit of God in them.
(we know this just is not so.)
The spirit of God is of God and is not God.
God is spirit, but spirit is not God.
"Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord. Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
And when he had said this,
he breathed on them,
and saith unto them,
Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
Now if the spirit of Jesus is all that Jesus is, then the spirit of God is indeed God.
The truth is that
the Bible never calls
the spirit of God-->God the Spirit
because God's spirit is not God, but rather is an out-breathing/pouring from God.
The spirit of God is whaT God releases from His being: power/dunamis
(see what i'm getting at about the Holy Spirit/Breath/Wind)
Here's another verse to think about before we type back and forth again:
While Peter preached on the day of Pentecost:
"Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear."
Jesus "hath shed forth this."
He [Jesus]recieves the promise of the Holy Spirit from the Father, and sheds this forth in and through us.
(It is only through the spirit of Jesus, who is both mediator and advocate, we can even know the Father.
(Jesus says,"No man cometh to the Father but by me.")
It's hoped all that was said right.
Gotta' go dear Brother,
P.S. tELL ME IF THIS IS SCREWED UP.
| 2011/7/13 17:30|
| Re: |
SIGH!!!! And I thought the KJV threads were confusing. Have fun guys.
| 2011/7/13 19:33|
| Re: TO THOSE CONFUSED ABOUT THIS THREAD |
There is no intention to confuse anyone.
If one will look to the first post on this thread, there are links to two other threads which compliment this one.
As well, due to time constraints, at present, there is little time to spell everything out in full detail.
Add to these two things the personal tendency to speedily type actual trains of thought: spelling might be off, the grammar is horrendous, errors, such as calling descriptive nouns adjectives and the like. . .all add to the hodge podge of a muddled continuum.
In one of those previous (1st page) threads it was stated that this is all intended to be typed in ordered detail so that those who are sincere in worshipping and serving God in truth can come to a clearer understanding of these things.
Still there are things that have not been brought up for debate, and hopes are that all the bases are covered before this is posted as the complete truth from the Bible (-vs- doctrines of demons)
(thinking about this, it resulted from 5 years of intense unceasing Bible study, yet when the dam burst STS, now it is realized to be more than 18 mopnths ago.
What is now more often than not daily occurances of this nature, and the first statement of text in the link below is what this is all about:
An explanation of that statement follows:
After Thursday night Bible studies, a few of us would always remain back, then minister to the Lord in Worship when we were sure the figity, impatient, those in bondage to schedules, those who did not get it, or had more important things to do were long gone and out of the picture completely.
Gifts of the spirit operated freely during these times. Often revelation followed, the Lord speaking through one of us gathered.
We would often search the scriptures after the speaking forth, or miracles, or whatever happened. After this worship ended, sometimes we would start back in studying Bible where we had left off if we were not checking that whatever happened conformed to scripture.
One fellow in these Bibloe study times began speaking falsehood though it sounded like truth.
He was saying that the reason God gave the law was to bring man to God.
Overcome by God's spirit filling me to the brim, it just spilled out and shocked everyone. I was so filled, there wasn't even any personal feelings involved when what was not planned at all poured out:
"That is what doctrines of demons are all about. Through the influence of temporal living or taking ideas that seem good, they are promoted as truth. If it is not in conformity with Jesus, and what He has revealed in the scriptures, do not say it.
The law was never ever intended to bring man closer to God. Only self-righteous legalists believe that lie.
Law was always given after man was in covenant with God through atonement, and no man can get closer to God than through blood atonement.
Jesus minstry, both what he said and what he did completely satisfied our Father. Jesus did a full and complete work. Anyone who adds to or detracts from His words will have hell to pay."
(A friend at times kept mp3 digital recordings of these sessions. This was one of those times. After these works bubbling up and pouring out of this mouth like that, being so amazed, it was listened to repeatedly.It was spoken in a way that nobody questioned--(not even Mr. Sceptical Spectacles<---me)--with an authority that could never be mistaken as my own.)
[this is not the first time this has happened, and it was/is not the last]
I began looking at every message claiming the name 'christian', through whatever medium, to see whether it conformed to what Jesus' says or does. Jesus having completed His work, satisfying our Father, there is nothing else that can be added except commentary.
If whatever commentary seems to contradict Jesus, either i am misunderstanding the commentary or it comes from the yawning mouth of hell.
Many accepted doctrines by mainline orthodoxy must be pushed back to the place from which they came.
Those who will not accept the truth found in the sciptures and proclaim otherwise after it is clearly revealed to them will fall under judgement if they are not God's own, and chastisement if they are His.
Mark these words and take them to the bank.
The time is short and there is no longer any time to dilly dally determining whether something is right or not just because we reason it to be so. (There may be hell to pay, depending which side of the fence you are on.)
Some who are reading this are literally the generation onto whom the ends of the world have come.
Today is the day to prepare for the return of Messiah Jesus.
Tomorrow may be to late.
All the earth will be taken unawares through the coming calamnities in the advent of the beast and false prophet.
It will spring on many like a trap and there will be no way out.
Quit looking and commenting on all the things just beginning to happen. This is childsplay compared to what soon shall be.
You look to Jesus and trust in Him for everything. Don't think you can be prepared for what's ahead by doing anything towards physical security, be it money or food.
All will be shaken, and most everything will come crashing down (. . .but right now, if you have not done so, you might want to go get some vegetable seeds, and wherever possible grow produce [even as there has been a famine for the Word of God, food will soon be a highly valued commodity until it becomes scarce. . .a famine.]
The only way to be prepared is through your thoughts words and deeds done now, by remaining firmly fixed in Jesus' teaching and lifestyle. (Let this mind be in you, and present your bodies a sacrafice living holy and acceptable to God)
Aside from this, nothing really matters anymore.
[It should have been this way all along for those who claim Jesus Christ, but it's not.]
Note the increase in floods, fires, and earthquakes as signs to watch and pray, not to panic. . .
The time is upon us:
the threshing floor is being purged with fire
as sons of God are being scourged.
Glory to God HALLEL U YA!
He will have a glorious bride,
unblemished in attire,
taylored made by the Master Himself.
(even so Lord Jesus, arrive quickly.)
| 2011/7/15 14:23|
| Re: |
"""You can hear but can't tell where the wind came from or where it goes. . ."""
But, when it gets to where you are, you know it is wind.
The Same with the Spirit of God, when He gets where you are You know it. The wind is He, He, He, as many times as Paul uses He, He is a Person, and I know when the Wind is blowing.
The same with the birthing of Christ in the believer, God does not ask our permission to birth the incorruptable Seed of Christ in us. Just like our mothers and fathers, they did not ask my permission, God gave His permissive creation to conceive seed in my mother. Without the Spirit of Christ the Holy Spirit would have nothing to teach a person, but with the Spirit of Christ He, the Holy Spirit teaches what Christ says and renews my mind to the Mind of Christ.
God does not need our permission to give us the born again experience, it is by His good pleasure and Grace that we are born again unto new life in Christ. New creatures, never before seen or known of, This mystery that Paul speaks of in Col 1: This mystery of Christ in you the hope of glory. Now the Holy Spirit seals us into Christ and Christ in us and begins His own personal ministry. Teaching us this Christ in us.
In Christ: Phillip
| 2011/7/15 18:44||Profile|
| Re: |
John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
John 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
John 16:7-10 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
Jesus is not saying I will send you myself. To send the Comforter must be another person of the God head, He will not speak of Himself but what Jesus says, He the Comforter, Holy Ghost will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of Judgement, because Jesus goes to His Father and we see Him no more. He is He whom the Father has sent in the Sons name, to shew us things to come.
In Christ: Phillip
| 2011/7/15 21:42||Profile|