| Re: |
hi, God can do and be whatever He wants to do or be ergo the seven Spirits of God. if you can figure Him out and explain everything then your god is toosmall.jimp
| 2011/6/26 23:45||Profile|
| Re: |
It is interesting that you say this.
Last night, my wife and I were discussing the admonition to remain faithful to our "first love" (to the Church of Ephesus in the second chapter of Revelation) or risk our lampstick being removed from place. In the rebuke, Jesus told the Church to "repent and do the things that you did first" (the "first works"). So, my wife and I discussed our early days in the Lord.
My wife had a more gradual relationship with Jesus Christ. She grew up in a godly Christian home and was raised in the Church all of her life. She certainly had a "born again" experience -- but gave after having known the ways of God throughout her young life.
I also met Christ after having been raised in the Church after my mother was saved (when I was a child). Although my family provided a great example of Christ (and the change in my parents was notable), I didn't give myself to Christ until I was a teenager. In fact, I was quite agnostic while a young person. It wasn't until I met Christ outside...alone in a field one night at a summer camp...that I realized the existence of God as a fact and that I was giving myself wholly to Him. The change was sudden and dramatic...and unexpected.
That summer, I began to pour myself into the Word of God. I wanted to know the Lord...and I knew that it would come from knowing His Word. One thing that was unique was that I was willing to dismiss EVERYTHING that I had ever been taught about the Lord. I knew so many "fakes" and "phonies" (especially in the Pentecostal churches that we attended) and people who just couldn't point out WHY they believed certain doctrinal "truths" that it wasn't difficult to question the things that I had been taught or that had been widely accepted by believers. I wanted to know FOR CERTAIN whether those things that I had long been taught were true from God's Word.
One of the things that I remembered questioning was in regard to the concept of the Trinity.
Before I met the Lord (and while I was quite agnostic), I could never understand the concept. I was taught various anecdotes to compare the Trinity (such as H2O -- water, ice and steam....or the egg -- yoke, white and shell). However, I wasn't quite "buying it" when my Sunday School teachers taught it. When I came to Christ, I wanted to know whether or not it was true.
After I came to Christ that summer, I poured myself into the Word of God. I read the entire Bible several times through within a couple of months. Within a year, I had read the Word cover-to-cover about ten times (in addition to topical, corporate and prayerful study).
One thing that was clear to me was the concept of a Trinity. It wasn't a single verse or passage...but the entire New Testament. After having read the Word through a few times, I began to see the concept of the Trinity in the Old Testament. In a very short period of time and through intense study, it was no longer a question. I was convinced.
Anyway, your words caused me to remember my conversation with my wife from last night...and how I had contemplated this issue as a new believer. There were other topics that I questioned and confirmed. There were yet other topics that I still haven't "settled upon" as a undeniable truths (such as specific notions about eschatology). However, I felt inclined as a new believer to view the concept of the Trinity as indisputable -- even though I had been willing to question it from the get-go.
I hope this makes sense.
| 2011/6/27 0:08||Profile|
| Re: |
Wanted to get back here before now but - I'm getting as pokey as my dial-up.
Appreciated this part Chris - "I wanted to know the Lord...and I knew that it would come from knowing His Word. One thing that was unique was that I was willing to dismiss EVERYTHING that I had ever been taught about the Lord."
Amen! I believe that's also what John 16:13 is about besides knowing how to cross-reference and all. Very good.
What developed in my search was sort of a combination of reflecting on how when a person is Born-again, the Holy Spirit enters the spirit of the person. This part I wanted also to discuss with Phanetheus.
Reflecting on how we're 'suppose' to operate as GOD indwelled people - consisting of body, soul and spirit - my thoughts went to how that when the Holy Spirit enters our spirit - the next thing that we experience is that the Spirit is able to speak to us - into our souls and then the soul can control the body. That the souls, having a freewill, determines how much in submission or dependence it will have upon the Spirit within or will it continue to act autonomously.
The ideal would be the soul under complete dependence on the leading of the Spirit within and then the body doing whatever the enlightened soul has heard. That would be an example of how Jesus walked while on earth. The three in unity with GOD as the Head. So then I remembered, "Let us make man in Our Image" and that thought came that maybe this is this tripartite nature of man - as GOD is tripartite, because if GOD's ideal design was for man to be 'like' Him, and Christ was as we are To be - then it made sense to me that the properly GOD ordained function of the triune nature of man represents the Triunity of GOD - "created in His Image".
Of course the unsaved are not conformed to His Image but nonetheless, created in His Image with the potential to be formed into the Image of The Son.
Some occultists use their spirits in the wrong way - like astral projection and remote viewing and the such from Satan and the ability to go into those types of spiritism have crept into the Church, but to stay on topic - I felt more understanding of His Triune Nature when I saw ours and how Jesus was the Ideal man as our example. He said that His Words and acts were not His Own but the Fathers and He definitely walked in the Spirit of GOD. Then we're told to do the same as He did - or 'walk' as He did - so it seemed to come together better in my mind with this understanding.
If I took away from His Triune Nature - that I was taking away from what He created us to be. Led by His Spirit, with our wills/soul under submission to His Spirit and the body under submission to the submitted soul and it just made sense to me that way to see Jesus as our example of what a tripartite human is in GOD's perfect functioning condition, tripartite with the Spirit being depended on by the soul/will and the body obeying that spirit led man - so that Jesus represented "In Our Image" as GOD had intended.
Make sense to you Brothers?
| 2011/6/28 21:14|
| Re: |
Absolutely makes sense.
Chris, Quote: """ I was willing to dismiss EVERYTHING that I had ever been taught about the Lord." """
The same for me, I, Phillip also.
To: JIG,---The Same sense the Holy Spirit revealed to me about 10 years ago, Christ is new life in Spirit, The Holy Spirit bringing this new life to our soul, and God the Father giving us a new body when resurrection comes.
Three part man and three Part God.
New life; 1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the Word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
John 1:1-4 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Same "Word", Jesus Himself.
Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Holy Spirit Teacher of The Christ that is in us; John 14:16-17 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
Christ in us; John 14:19-20 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
The Revelation of Christ in us, by the Holy Spirit revealer and Sealer and Teacher who does not speak of Himself but only what Jesus says. John 14:26-27 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
The Creater of life, God and Now our Father and the Re-Creator of His Son in us, new creation life in Christ, new creatures in Him.
Our new body by the Father who created the original Adam and now The Father of the Last Adam, He will give us a new physical body just the Body of His resurrected Son.
Daniel 10:5-6 Then I lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a certain man clothed in linen, whose loins were girded with fine gold of Uphaz: His body also was like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as lamps of fire, and his arms and his feet like in colour to polished brass, and the voice of his words like the voice of a multitude.
Philippians 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto Himself.
Truly we are Gods sons, "Let (((us))) make man in (((our)))
image and likeness.
Father, Son and Holy Spirit with man, born again and Body, spirit and soul. Tripartate man just like The Three in One, Tripartate God who is One.
1Co 15:27 For He hath put all things under His feet. But when He saith, all things are put under Him, it is manifest that He is excepted, which did put all things under Him.
1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto Him, then shall the Son also Himself be subject unto Him that put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.
In Him who is all in all: Phillip
| 2011/6/29 17:52||Profile|
| Re: |
Bless you much Brother Philip. I truly understand the exuberance with which you share His Word now. As they say, "You get on a roll" and it's hard to contain it. It's like His Word/Truth is bursting to get out and almost can't be contained. The JOY over-floods you and you release it and you truly don't feel it's self-effort, nor do you feel that self-effort can contain it inside you. It 'has to' be released when it builds up like this. I can only compare it to when Mary burst out before Elisabeth.... "And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord, and my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour............"
You can feel that these words just Burst out of her as Christ was then in her ... the Love of GOD expressed with such unbelievable joy!
Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you
Eph 4:23,24 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; and that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Your post is beautiful, Brother. Thank you from my heart.
| 2011/7/1 1:22|
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Bless God daughter of Abraham, who has direct revelation from the Holy Spirit. When He is ready He knows the exact timing for revealing His Son in us. You feel the bursting in Paul also. Galatians 1:15-16 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
With all the Love and Power of all creation by the Christ in us, revealed to His sons and daughters. God bless you.
| 2011/7/1 3:02||Profile|
| Re: |
Brother Philip, YOU have been praying for me and have been so very patient with me over a span of literally Years.
My humble appreciate and tearful gratitude.
Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers [noun masculine], to feed the Church of GOD, which He hath purchased with His Own blood.
My prayers are with you with my unexpressable thanks for your unbelievable patience.
Amen, and Amen! I still have much to learn, but TRUST HIM to take me there as/when He sees fit.
The LORD Bless you!
| 2011/7/1 3:32|
| Re: TO ALL|
No time for blathering chit chat
intellectual slobber right now.
Although the end comments reflect my own biase, please don't go getting in as dander because of what is stated.
Just think about what you think the Holy Ghost is compared to the revelation of scripture.
it's thought that you really misunderstood me reading your second responses, though this is probably due to me misunderstanding you. Anyway, there is little time to type right now, and this Schabbat has left me with this break of mere minutes as my family is preparing to go to Bible Study with kin on the other side of town.
This was written before falling asleep last night.
It gets to the core of my reasonings and perspective.
I am just asking all you guys to look and tell me, with scriptural proof where this is wrong. . .PLEASE???
You know my personal view has changed progressively through the years in respect to the Holy Ghost, matching experience with scripture. i really do not like hollow arguements just to prove a point that really doesn't change anybody made adversary.
Travis you are so right: rabbiot trails.
Phillip, you have made me think about things that have never really been bothered with, and i am still working through these Q's from the Bible.
Ginny, i'm gonna have to explain things in terms of my own testimony for anybody to really understand what the problem is.
ps: i have copied, but have not yet read any posts since last Saturday
Using scripture to disprove false notions about the Holy Ghost:
Shattering images religious men have created for God to live in
Thus saith the LORD,
"The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest? For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word. He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations. I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not."
Hear the word of the LORD, ye that tremble at his word; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name's sake, said, Let the LORD be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed.
HATH MADE that same
JESUS , whom ye have
AND CHRIST. For the law of
THE SPIRIT of life
HATH MADE me free from the law of sin and death.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that
THE SPIRIT OF GOD
DWELL IN YOU: Now if any man have not
THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST, he
IS none of His. And if
IN YOU , the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit
Of which salvation the
PROPHETS have enquired and searched diligently, who
OF THE POWER
THAT SHOULD COME
--THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS IS THE SPIRIT OF PROPHECY--
Searching what, or what manner of time
OF CHRIST which was
IN THEM did signify, when it
BEFOREHAND the sufferings of Christ, and
Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but
UNTO US they did minister
THE THINGS , which
ARE NOW reported
BY them that have preached
THE GOSPEL unto you
which things the angels desire to look into. And
I BEHELD , and, lo,
IN the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in
THE midst of the elders, stood a
LAMB as it had been slain,
HAVING SEVEN HORNS
AND SEVEN EYES, which are
SPIRITS OF GOD
ALL THE EARTH. Now
IS THAT SPIRIT: and where
OF THE LORD is, there is liberty.
WE ALL , with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord,
INTO THE SAME IMAGE from glory to glory, even as
BEFORE THE FOUNDATION
OF THE WORLD, but was manifest in these last times for you,
US IN HIM before the foundation of the world, that
Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.
For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But
BUT ONE GOD,
ARE ALL THINGS, and we in him;
AND ONE LORD
ARE ALL THINGS, and we by him. That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear: Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
Verses used follow:
Acts 2.36b(ii. to end of verse) / Romans 8.2, 9-10 / I Peter 1.10 / Revelation 19.10g(ii.-x.) / I Peter 1.11-12 / Revelation 5.6 / II Corinthians 3.17-18 / I Peter 1.20 / Ephesians 1.4 / I Peter 1.13-15 / I Corinthians. 8.5-6/ I John. 1.3, 2.22-24, 4.1 / II Peter. 1.17 / II John. 1.9
Who is blaspheming the Holy Spirit?
THIS IS WALKING IN THE SPIRIT OF ANTI-CHRIST:
By telling others the Holy Spirit is a person other than Christ Jesus, one denies the Son. By telling others that the Holy Spirit does not proceed out from El, one denies the Father.
For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
II Thessalonians 2.7-12
". . .Because
IS such an important part of
DOCTRINE it is striking
THAT the term
LIKEWISE, the developed concept of
WITHIN the confines of
CANON. . ."
("The Oxford Companion to the Bible" , 1993 edition)
| 2011/7/2 14:31|
| Re: |
But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
Who did Ananias Lie to?
answer the Holy Ghost and God
| 2011/7/2 15:44||Profile|
| Re: |
If you study John 14,15,16,17, you See very plainly that Jesus is not speaking of Himself as the Holy Spirit, Another Comforter or Holy Ghost, But as the Another Comforter. The Holy Spirit is the Teacher of what Jesus has said, and He will not speak of Himself, but only what Jesus has given Him to speak. The Holy Spirit is the Sealer of the Spirit of Christ in us which is new life by the Spirit of Christ that is birthed in us by the Incorruptable Seed of the Father. The Holy Spirit is sent from the Father, The Spirit of Christ is birthed in us by the Father. We have plainly Three in One, One God, Three separate and distinct manifestations of who God is. The Father Creator, the Son Re-Creator of New Life in Christ, The Spirit, Sealer and Parakleet, Teacher of Truth.
In Christ, by the Father, Life in the Son and Holy Spirit Revealer and Teacher of the Mind of Christ we now have.
In Christ: Phillip
| 2011/7/3 0:59||Profile|