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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.

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Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

Good that you do things with your son. Your son already knew who his Father is. Your instructions are sanctification not salvation.

For me to have an undersnding and rightly divide instruction, I must have an intimate relationship with The Father who has rebirthed me by Jesus Christ in me. Now the instruction given because of His nature, and my new nature, I can rightly divide the Word of Truth, If I don't understand, the Holy Spirit will reveal to me even what I don't understand. Salvation and justification first then Then Sanctification.

Cain had no understanding from his birth, or he would not have slain his brother, God was not His Father or creator as far as cain could understand. Cain was a self unto self, not a self unto God, who takes away self and gives Oneness with the Father with Jesus Christ being the incorruptable Seed that gives rebirth to a new creature.

Learning to be a Christ person to our Father, not a self unto self like Cain. I am a Christ person unto the Father and renewing my mind to this truth, being Sanctified unto what I have been justified through the Cross, the Salvation of my soul, for my Spirit is now the Spirit of Christ.



In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2012/5/10 22:57Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
Savannah TN

 Re:

Phillip wrote:

"Cain had no understanding from his birth,"


What about Abel, was he like Cain? What does the Scriptures say?


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Jeff Marshalek

 2012/5/11 10:24Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

Heb 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Even though Abel's sacrifice of Blood, which speaks even unto this day of the remission of sin by blood only, pointing to the more excellent sacrifice of Christ, Abels only claim unto why he offered a better acceptable sacrifice than Cain is by "Faith".

Both sacrifices were of the work of their hands, both Cain and Able, there is only conjecture of why God accepted Abels and not Cains, being in the element of the sacrifice only. So the acceptance of Abels offering is still in God's hands, any speculation on our part as to why is unable to be found in scripture. All I can say is God had given Abel faith and cain not, or cain would have had the same heart in the offering of his sacrifice and God would have accepted it. Cain did not offer in Faith as Abel did.
Sorry I am unable to comply completely with your question. If the answer is in scripture, it is hidden to me. All I can say is Abel had a heart of faith and Cain did not.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2012/5/11 14:18Profile
a-servant
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Joined: 2008/5/3
Posts: 435


 Re:

Cannot see that it is hidden in scripture, it's just that your definition of 'faith' cannot catch it. Once you expand on the biblical definition of what 'faith' is in the scriptural context, expressively stated or in Genesis just implied, it will become clearer that this is all we need to know and understand. Faith implies a response in faith by faith, that is the difference of Cain and Abels basic orientation towards God. If there is no personal responsibility on their part, how can there be any judgment? Any average capable law consulting firm would have a field day bailing out Cain. That Hebrews verse in context is about faith, check the similarities of all the other faith examples, that comparison is made to get a better insight in what that word 'faith' means in full context.

 2012/5/11 23:38Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

Who's Faith?

De 32:20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.

Hab 2:4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

The Lords faith by which we can understand and believe, is not puffed up and was not His own conjured up faith, but was the humble faith of God His Father. That is why Jesus thought it not robbery to be equal with God.

John 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

Philippians 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Luke 7:50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

Jesus dispenses forgiveness of sins and in this power given Him, He also gives the power of Faith dispensed by the Holy Spirit that by believing sins are forgiven, through the Faith dispensed with the forgiveness of sin has saved her. This also gave more proof for the Holy Spirit to make those that sat at meat with them, would have their most Holy Fsith built up also.

Luke 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

If Christ did not have power over faith, how could He pray their faith would not fail and be converted and strengthen their breathren by faith.

Do we believe that the prayer of Christ was heard?

Acts 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

"""Furthermore, we must know that all mankind is naturally deprived of those good things which Christ saith we have by believing the gospel; so that it followeth that all are blind, because they be lightened by faith; that all are the bond-slaves of Satan, because they are set free by faith from his tyranny; that all men are the enemies of God, and subject to eternal death, because they receive remission of sins by faith. So that nothing is more miserable than we, if we be without Christ, and without his faith, whereby it appeareth how little, yea, that nothing is left for the free will of men's merits."""

These quotes of Calvin reinforce the revelation of scripture that my faith and free will cannot turn me from darkness to light.

""" As touching every part, this lightening is referred unto the knowledge of God, because all our quickness of sight is mere vanity and thick darkness, until He appear unto us by his truth. That reacheth farther which followeth afterward: To be turned from darkness to light; for that is when we are renewed in the spirit of our mind."""

That is why we must be born again to see the things of God. Without the Born Again Spirit of Christ in me, my faith and freewill can only take me to one place which is hell and my old father satan will keep me in darkness of which on my own I can never be free of.

Romans 1:3-6 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name: Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:

1 Corinthians 2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

Is not faith considered a gift of the Spirit? What is this faith for? 1 Corinthians 12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

Ga 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Ga 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Ga 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Ga 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Who's faith are we justified by? Who's faith do we live by?
How do we hear faith?

My faith and will were crucified with Christ, the life I now live, "I live by the faith of Jesus Christ", which is now my will and my faith, which is now my most Holy Faith.

Jude 1:20-21 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost, Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

How was our faith made Holy? Being born again, that we now can see the things of God.

By His Faith that lives in me: Phillip


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Phillip

 2012/5/12 14:49Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
Savannah TN

 Re:

Phillip asks:

"How do we hear faith?"


Scripture teaches us that God gives to man His Holy Spirit so that man is without excuse. Paul writes this of man's responsibility....



Gal 6:7 Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap.

Gal 6:8 For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.


The Scriptures gives us a clear example of what Paul wrote of above...the first two offspring of Adam.


You profess not to know how Abel pleased God? Is not God's Holy Spirit Abel's teacher? Is not God's Holy Spirit the source of Abel's faith?








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Jeff Marshalek

 2012/5/12 20:16Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

Quote: """You profess not to know how Abel pleased God? Is not God's Holy Spirit Abel's teacher? Is not God's Holy Spirit the source of Abel's faith?"""

I don't know, it says God spoke to Cain. It would seem to me the same way He spoke to Adam. I know the source of my faith is Jesus Christ and my Teacher is the Holy Spirit who only teaches Jesus Christ.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

The Holy Spirits teaching will not speak of Himself, but only what Jesus tells Him to teach Gods offspring, which we are.

John 16:13-14 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

God is the only One that can give a heart with faith that pleases Him.

What the Holy Spirit taught Abel I don't profess to know or if He did. All I know is God respected Abels offering and Cains He did not. He could not, consistently with his holiness and justice, approve of the one or receive the other. Of the manner in which God testified of his respect for Abels offering and not for Cains we are not informed.

The only thing I see is that the offering of Abel reminded God of the "Lamb slain before the foundation of the world", that is reason enough for the respect of Abels offering.

Genesis 4:1-10 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD. And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground. And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD. And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering: But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell. And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him. And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him. And the LORD said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper? And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.

I see Cain as the first murderer in the scripture because he was wroth and he rose up and slew his brother. Jealousy? My speculation.

If you know what the Holy Spirit taught Abel or even if He did teach Abel, I would like to see it in scripture. This is all I know about Abel; Lu 11:51 From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation.
Heb 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Abels blood was required of Cain. Abel a picture of a prophet? Cain a picture of Israel that slain the prophets?

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2012/5/13 1:08Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
Savannah TN

 Re:

Phillip asks:

"If you know what the Holy Spirit taught Abel or even if He did teach Abel, I would like to see it in scripture."


Abel was the first prophet of God. From Scripture what do we know of prophets? Did God teach them what to say and do?


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Jeff Marshalek

 2012/5/13 7:15Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

I know there are good prophets and bad ones, I know God is the One that gives the good ones what to say to His own who listen.

De 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

De 18:20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.

De 18:22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

De 34:10 And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face,

Jg 6:8 That the LORD sent a prophet unto the children of Israel, which said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, I brought you up from Egypt, and brought you forth out of the house of bondage;

Yes God teaches Prophets what to say and do. Able as a Prophet points to the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world, because of his shed blood of a lamb offering, which God had respect for.

I know not how this was imparted to Abel, only that God had respect for his offering and in Hebrews it says Abel was righteous in the doing.

Hebrews 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

This being a picture of the ultimate sacrifice of Christ Himself for all those given to Him by God that are to live in the Father's House, His offspring; Those written in the Lambs book of life. Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.


In Christ: Phillip

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2012/5/13 14:44Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
Savannah TN

 Re:

Phillip wrote:

"I know not how this was imparted to Abel, only that God had respect for his offering and in Hebrews it says Abel was righteous in the doing."


The Scriptures testify as to how God raised up prophets for Himself...have you not read these testimonies? What is the common "method" used by God?


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Jeff Marshalek

 2012/5/13 16:17Profile





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