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Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : Joplin , MO, takes a big hit by a tornado

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ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4537


 Re:

Very true!

After all, it rains on the just and the unjust (Matthew 5:45). God set the laws of nature in order at the foundation of the world.

A short time ago, another tornado went through Oklahoma City. We are praying for them too.


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Christopher

 2011/5/24 19:26Profile









 Re:

Quote:
his is a very good example of how God uses natural disasters in judgement. Many Christians don't want to hear this. They see all disasters as coming from the devil. It is not much different now than it was in Jeremiah's day.



Quote:
And they are just as much rejected today as they were back then.



I wholeheartedly agree with these. How terribly true.

 2011/5/24 19:43
InTheLight
Member



Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2774
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re:

Quote:
After all, it rains on the just and the unjust (Matthew 5:45). God set the laws of nature in order at the foundation of the world.



I believe that all the world was under the dominion of man when he was created, including the elements. Man was made a vice-regent of sorts; man was under the dominion of God, the world under the dominion of man.

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
(Genesis 1:26)

It was when man tore himself away from God's dominion that his dominion over the world was torn from him. I beleive that natural disasters are a clear indication of this. Peace with God and peace with creation were lost. When I see perils come upon the earth I don't immediately think it is God's judgement on a particular people. What I think about is how much I hate sin because of the suffering, pain, and tears that it causes.

As Jesus pointed out when speaking about the tower of Siloam that fell and killed 18 people, this is not a world of retribution (Luke 13:4-5). Many times the most wicked people prosper here and their punishment is reserved for another age while the righteous often suffer much and "appear" to be under judgment. This we do know, that everything will be made fair and plain in the end and there will be no more pain and tears in heaven.

In Christ,

Ron


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Ron Halverson

 2011/5/24 19:49Profile









 Re:

Quote:
After all, it rains on the just and the unjust (Matthew 5:45).



Yes, and sometimes rather hard, with big winds and hail.... all sent from the one who sends the rain for the just and the unjust.


OJ

 2011/5/24 21:08
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7504
Mississippi

 Re:

Is it not odd that man will attribute needed rain to God but when accompanied by hail or tornadoes, it is just nature? or whatever?

I grew up in rural America. Dad had a working farm, growing grain as well as other farm animals and fowl. Since we have been married, most of our married years were associated with agriculture. Those of us who grow crops, raise animals or fowl are totally dependent on the weather for moisture. If there is a prolonged drought we will have special prayer meetings at church that God would relieve us from this drought - people's livelihood is in jeopardy. (And so is your food supply!) Those of us involved in agriculture are so very God conscience, we depend on the LORD to give us rain; we know He is in charge regardless what forms it comes in. If it is bad, we pray for protection because we KNOW God is in control of it all.


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2011/5/24 21:54Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4537


 Re:

Hi OldJoe, GinnyRose, etc...

Do you think that some people are saying that God supernaturally superseded the very laws of nature that He created (when He founded the world) as an act of judgment meant to destroy 75% of a small town in Missouri and kill 122+ people? Or are people simply saying that God set the laws of nature into motion, and those physical laws eventually resulted with this storm?

God certainly created the laws of nature and set them in motion when He founded the world. He can certainly create storms and calm them just as easily. He can intervene as He sees fit.

However, this storm was the result of two converging air masses that collided violently and produced a super cell that spawned multiple tornadoes -- one which hit Joplin, Missouri (and the others hit mostly rural areas). I saw some video online where some meteorologists "foresaw" the tornadoes forming before they did...and even issued warnings shortly before the tornado struck.

I don't know if some of the brothers and sisters here are saying that God caused this storm in the sense that He set in motion the laws of nature when He founded the world and didn't intervene to stop it -- OR that He supernaturally superseded those normal laws that He created in order to specifically create this tornado at this point of time as an act of judgment. After reading some of the comments, it does seem a bit confusing.

The Scriptures say that we shouldn't worry about tomorrow. We shouldn't worry about what we will eat or drink, or how we will be clothed. Jesus also said that a sparrow does not fall to the ground apart from the Father (Matthew 10:29-31). However, I don't think that Jesus meant that God was out killing birds. Rather, I believe that God set the world and its laws into motion when He spoke it into existence. This includes the laws pertaining to nature and physics (including meteorology, biology, etc...).

Last year, there were more than 1,500 reported tornadoes and nearly 1,300 confirmed in the United States (according to the National Weather Service). The average is between 1,000 and 1,400 tornadoes in the United States each year. Most of these take place in the Spring along "Tornado Alley" that stretches in the central corridor of the United States where cold air masses converge with warm air masses. While God set the laws of nature in motion, I think that it would be unwise to attribute every one of these results of the laws of nature as a specific judgment against humanity.

Of course, they always serve as a reminder of the power of both nature and God. God created the laws of nature and physics. He is not bound to those laws, but He set them over us as we live in this temporary world.

I just think that we should be slow to place the blame upon God for the destruction and death that came from this particular storm or voice it assertively as some form of divine judgment for the sins of Joplin, MO. Otherwise, we might find ourselves looking into a supernatural tornado and being asked why God didn't consult us (if we are so wise) when He formed the world.

We should certainly pray for the people of Joplin...and pray that many find Christ. However, I think that we should all be a bit "slow to speak" before we pronounce each and every work of nature as a form of divine judgment.


_________________
Christopher

 2011/5/24 22:11Profile









 Re:

This is what we know.

1. God did not intervene to stop these storms.
2. We are not hapless victims of circumstances or "nature".
3. Man does not view these storms as blessings. We don't know how God views them or what His many purposes are in allowing them.
4. There is a reason for everything that God allows.
5. Job did not view the natural elements that wreaked havoc on his family as blessings.
6. As Job says, "are we to take good from the Lord and not bad also?"
7. Job viewed all of the "natural" tragedies as coming from God's hand.


The greatest power in this world is God. He can stop it but He chose not to.

And, as Job says, "The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away, blessed be the name of the Lord."

A777

 2011/5/24 22:40
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3326
Texas

 Re:

Quote:
by anonymous777 This is what we know. 1. God did not intervene to stop these storms. 2. We are not hapless victims of circumstances or "nature". 3. Man does not view these storms as blessings. We don't know how God views them or what His many purposes are in allowing them. 4. There is a reason for everything that God allows. 5. Job did not view the natural elements that wreaked havoc on his family as blessings. 6. As Job says, "are we to take good from the Lord and not bad also?" 7. Job viewed all of the "natural" tragedies as coming from God's hand. The greatest power in this world is God. He can stop it but He chose not to. And, as Job says, "The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away, blessed be the name of the Lord." A777



I totally agree! and put in such a simple way, that even a child could understand, I think God would be proud of you.


_________________
Bill

 2011/5/24 22:58Profile









 Re:

Quote:
However, this storm was the result of two converging air masses that collided violently and produced a super cell that spawned multiple tornadoes -- one which hit Joplin, Missouri (and the others hit mostly rural areas).



We kind of figured that, but where did the air masses come from? Who arranged them? Why did they collide exactly where they did?

Quote:
Do you think that some people are saying that God supernaturally superseded the very laws of nature that He created (when He founded the world) as an act of judgment meant to destroy 75% of a small town in Missouri and kill 122+ people? Or are people simply saying that God set the laws of nature into motion, and those physical laws eventually resulted with this storm?



No, what we are telling you is that your laws of nature being passively observed by God are a load of bunk. God didn't just create the world and set everything in motion and then sit back in His proverbial easy chair to watch what would happen. If God was not continually active in keeping our planet rotating at the right speed and the right angle, it would have slowed down and the days and seasons needed to sustain life would be altered by now. Between earthquakes, space debris, nuclear detonations, the earth should be well out of its path by now, but near as we can tell it is not. That is an active God actively governing His creation.


OJ



 2011/5/25 0:04









 Re:

Next, it was not Satan that moved against Job but God.

Job 2:3-5 And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although THOU MOVEDST ME against him, to destroy him without cause. 4 And Satan answered the Lord, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life. But put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face.

It was God who put forth His hand against Job, as Job testifies below. The reason, to bring the righteous Job to repentance, which is what the book of Job is about.

Job 2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.

Those who refuse to believe this speak as the foolish women speak, refusing to accept evil at the hand of God should He so send it.

OJ

 2011/5/25 0:10





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