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Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : Joplin , MO, takes a big hit by a tornado

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 Re:

Hi FireinmyBones1,

I appreciate your understanding of it also and agree with you that we are all constantly being transformed and learning new things from the Lord. We do have to remain open, don't we? None of us has all the Light.

So far, in my experience which of course is absolutely limited, I just have to go with what I said, right? No man can go against his conscious or what has been revealed to him. So, I may be where you were a few years back. And then, maybe not. I am confident the Lord is able to show us.

I have walked with Him long enough to already have experienced (like you) that long held views I once had on other things, the Lord has given me new light on.

With that said, I will take your interpretation and keep it in mind.

God bless,
A777


 2011/5/24 13:25
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2094
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

twayneb wrote:

Quote:
Remember Jesus did not cause the storm on the sea of Galilee, but He did calm it.


Good point brother. First of all, glad to hear you and yours are ok.
I would agree with whitestone in his point about the Father allowing the storm to show His power through His Son.
My concern regarding this issue is that too many Christians are afraid of declaring the glory and power of God. They are afraid of offending non-believers. One of the biggest objections to the gospel has to do with the problem of suffering. The unsaved say that if God is all-loving and merciful He would not cause or allow all the suffering we see around us. In response to that objection, some Christians will say that God does not have control over the suffering or calamities, and they attribute it to something else other than God, like the devil or nature. That kind of response makes God look like a weakling in the eyes of the world, like a god who is not worthy of worship.

I think sometimes the best answer we can give is that we don't know exactly why God allows certain things but we trust in His wisdom and righteousness in allowing such things. As has already been pointed out, clearly one reason He allows large scale calamities is to wake people up to the issue of eternity and their relationship with God.

As believers, we know that all things work together for the good of those who love God and are called according to His purpose. The "all things" includes natural disasters or any other calamities that may come our way. We can trust that He has a special purpose for allowing everything in our lives. I think a good prayer sometimes is, "Lord, what do you want me to learn from this?" As to the unsaved, there are countless testimonies of people being saved through times of suffering and difficulty. C.S. Lewis stated, "God whispers to us in our pleasures, speaks in our conscience, but shouts in our pains: it is His megaphone to rouse a deaf world."



_________________
Oracio

 2011/5/24 13:48Profile









 Re:

Fire

When you learn that Rev 19:11-16 speaking about Christ just as much as Exo 15:3 is speaking about Christ, it all clears up.


OJ

 2011/5/24 14:58









 Re:

Hi Guys, the piece below is by Fank Bartleman. It speaks to the earthquake that hit San Fransico at the turn of the last century and someone posted on SI shortly after the Japanese earthquake. It may serve some purpose here on this thread..........brother Frank

By Frank Bartleman

“Frank Bartleman was an early leader of the Pentecostal movement at the Azusa Street Mission in Los Angeles, California. He was a central figure in the Azusa Street revival of 1906. His reports published in the holiness press heralded a world-wide revival. Bartleman’s journalism helped to inform the world of the Pentecostal renewal and was largely responsible for promoting a revival that is still spreading throughout the world. The following is an excerpt from Azusa Street, Frank Bartleman’s chronicle of the birth of the Pentecostal movement.”

I found the earthquake had opened many hearts. I was distributing especially my last tract, “The Last Call.” It seemed very appropriate after the earthquake. Sunday, April 22, I took 10,000 of these to the New Testament Church. The workers seized them eagerly and scattered them quickly throughout the city.

Nearly every pulpit in the land was working overtime to prove that God had nothing to do with earthquakes and thus allay the fears of the people. The Spirit was striving to knock at hearts with conviction, through this judgment. I felt indignation that the preachers should be used of Satan to drown out His voice. Just as he later used them to stir up hatred and murder, during the great war. Even the teachers in the schools labored hard to convince the children that God was not in earthquakes. The devil put on a big propaganda on this line.

I had been much in prayer since the earthquake, and had slept little. After the shock in Los Angeles the Lord told me definitely He had a message for me for the people. On the Saturday after, He gave me a part of it. On Monday the rest was given. I finished writing it at 12:30 a.m. Tuesday, ready for the printer. I kneeled before the Lord and He met me in a powerful way, a powerful witness that the message was from Him. I was to have it printed in the morning. From that time until 4 a.m., I was wonderfully taken up in the spirit of intercession. I seemed to feel the wrath of God against the people and to withstand it in prayer. He showed me He was terribly grieved at their obstinacy in the face of His judgment on sin. San Francisco was a terribly wicked city.

He showed me all hell was being moved to drown out His voice in the earthquake, if possible. The message He had given me was to counteract this influence. Men had been denying His presence in the earthquake. Now He would speak. It was a terrific message He had given me. I was to argue the question with no man, but simply give them the message. They would answer to Him. I felt all hell against me in this, and so it proved. I went to bed at 4 o’clock, arose at 7, and hurried with the message to the printer.

The question in almost every heart was, “Did God do that?” But instinct taught men on the spot that He had. Even the wicked were conscious of the fact. The tract was set up quickly. The same day it was on the press, and the next noon I had my first consignment of the tract. I was impressed I must hasten and get them to the people as quickly as possible. I was reminded that the ten days I was called by the Lord to prayer was up the very day I received the first of the tracts. I understood it all now, clearly.

I distributed the message speedily in the missions, churches, saloons, business houses, and in fact everywhere, both in Los Angeles and Pasadena. Besides I mailed thousands to workers in nearby towns for distribution.

Many raved at the message. A man followed me on the street raving like a maniac. He followed me into a business house, to do me violence. But the Lord protected. He then tore my tract up publicly at the curb, to show his hate. Many threw the message down in a rage, only to pick it up again and read it. It seemed God held them to it.

Everyone was curious for the tract, though it burned the most of them like fire. Sometimes they would get so excited on the street cars they would get off before they reached their street. My very presence seemed to convict many. The message struck consternation to thousands of souls. I have never written a tract that had so much influence.

Sunday, May 11, I had finished my “Earthquake” tract distribution. Then the burden suddenly left me. My work was done, Seventy-five thousand had been published and distributed in Los Angeles and Southern California, in less than three weeks’ time. At Oakland, Brother Manley, of his own volition, had printed and distributed 50,000 more, in the Bay Cities and ‘round about, in about the same space of time. The following are some extracts from the “Earthquake” tract:

“But what had God to do with earthquakes? ‘When Thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world learn righteousness’ (Isaiah 26:9). ‘Which removeth the mountains, when He overturneth them in His anger, which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble’ (Job 9:5-6). ‘The mountains quake at Him, and the hills melt; and the earth is upheaved at His presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein. His fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are broken asunder by Him’ (Nahum 1:5-6). ‘And I will punish the world for their evil. Therefore I will make the heavens to tremble, and the earth shall be shaken our of her place, in the day of His fierce anger’ (Isaiah 13:11, 13).

“‘Then the earth shook and trembled, the foundations also of the mountains moved, and were shaken because He was wroth. There went up a smoke in His wrath, and fire out of His mouth devoured. The Lord thundered from Heaven, and the Most High uttered His voice. Then the channels of the sea appeared, the foundations of the world were laid bare, by the rebuke of the Lord, at the blast of the breath of His anger’ (Psalm 18).

“‘Behold, the Lord maketh the earth empty, and turneth it upside down (perverteth the face thereof), and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof. The foundations of the earth do shake, the earth is utterly broken, the earth is moved exceedingly. The earth shall stagger like a drunken man, and shall be moved to and fro. The transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it.’ (Isaiah 24:1, 18, 20). ‘Thou shalt be visited of the Lord of Hosts with earthquakes, and great noise, and the flame of a devouring fire.’ (Isaiah 29:6). ‘Men shall go into the caves of the rocks, from before the terror of the Lord, when he arises to shake terribly the earth’ (Isaiah 2:19). ‘And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air and there was a great earthquake’ (Revelation 16:17,18).

And will you claim there is no God in earthquakes? John Wesley has said, ‘Of all the judgments which the righteous God inflicts on sinners here, the most dreadful and destructive is an earthquake.’” – From “Earthquake Tract,” April 1906.

The San Francisco earthquake was surely the voice of God to the people on the Pacific Coast. It was used mightily in conviction, for the gracious after revival. In the early “Azusa” days both heaven and hell seemed to have come to town.

Excepted from Frank Bartleman’s, Azusa Street, Plainfield, NJ: Logos Int’l., 1980.

 2011/5/24 15:43









 Re: Appolous

Brother good article. I will not presume as to why an F4 tornado stuck Joplin. Was Joplin more sinful than Little Rock? The answer being NO. But one thing we do know of is tornadoes. We watch the weather warnings and when the sirens go off we take shelter. May I add one more thing we call on Jesus for salvation and protection. I would challenge a Moslem or Buddhist or Hindu or an athiest to call out to their whatever to save them when looking at an F4 or 5 funnel coming toward them. The only name that will save them is Jesus. When I saw the phone videos of the tragedy in Joplin there were those calling on Jesus to be saved. In the end is that not what it is about. Salvation in Jesus. Our prayers go put to the people in Joplin.

 2011/5/24 16:27
AbideinHim
Member



Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 3616
Louisiana

 Re:

"Nearly every pulpit in the land was working overtime to prove that God had nothing to do with earthquakes and thus allay the fears of the people. The Spirit was striving to knock at hearts with conviction, through this judgment. I felt indignation that the preachers should be used of Satan to drown out His voice. Just as he later used them to stir up hatred and murder, during the great war. Even the teachers in the schools labored hard to convince the children that God was not in earthquakes. The devil put on a big propaganda on this line."




Thanks Frank!

This is a very good example of how God uses natural disasters in judgement. Many Christians don't want to hear this. They see all disasters as coming from the devil. It is not much different now than it was in Jeremiah's day. The people want to hear peace and prosperity coming from the mouths of the prophets. They do not want to hear of judgement because they do not want to repent.

Judgement will do one of two things. It will either awaken the people to repentance or it will harden their hearts.

May the intercessors stand in the gap and cry out for mercy for our land.

Mike


_________________
Mike

 2011/5/24 16:33Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2094
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Thanks for that timely article brother Frank.


_________________
Oracio

 2011/5/24 17:28Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7504
Mississippi

 Re:

The amazing thing about the OT prophets is that their writings still speak as forcibly today as they did when they were originally penned. And they are just as much rejected today as they were back then.

Thanks for sharing this article.


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2011/5/24 17:44Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4537


 Re:

Hi twayneb,

It is great to hear from you, brother! My wife and I were holding you and your family in our prayers. We appreciate the update!

Quote:

Oracio: I am NOT talking about Deism (think I need to make that clear up front) but there are things that God does not control directly. One obvious is the will of man, but I think we can all agree that God will allow you to choose as you will. But I believe the same of weather. Has God and does God sometimes use weather, i.e. control it directly? I believe so. Does He always do it? Not by a long shot. He established weather patterns, sin corrupted them, and much of what happens is simply the natural happenings of weather. Remember Jesus did not cause the storm on the sea of Galilee, but He did calm it.



Good points.

In the "Camping's Legacy" thread, I urged caution in regard to the notion that the tornado was a divine act that superseded the laws of nature that God set in motion at the foundation of the Earth.

This is my response:

....... ....... ........


Quote:

Veronica226 wrote:

I suppose then the question could be asked, how many children did God kill in the Flood? Hundreds? thousands? millions? We must remember that God is NOT a tame lion. And that He says "I kill and I make alive." (Deut 32:39) God has the right to take life whenever or wherever.



The flood of Noah came only after the thoughts of the entire world were wicked. This was not the age of grace either. It was before the covenant of the rainbow when God promised not to destroy the entire world by water. It predated Moses and the Law. It predated the New Covenant that God made with mankind via the Gospel.

As such, I am disappointed with those who are painting God as the culprit behind the recent tornado in Joplin. It is the THIEF who comes to KILL, STEAL and DESTROY -- and God who comes to bring LIFE.

Yes, God is ultimately in charge of the weather. Just like He is in charge of gravity. He created the principles guiding the laws of physics -- including meteorology. These laws are firm (as in "firmament") cannot be changed EXCEPT by the divine intervention of God.

So, in this sense, God is responsible for ALL weather -- including fair weather days and bad weather days too. He set it in motion...when He created the physical principles and physical laws that guide this world. At the same time, he is responsible for the volcanoes at the bottom of the sea, the temperature of the sea, and the fact that roses smell nice, aloe vera sooths and poison ivy will give you a rash.

The greater question is whether or not God specifically superseded the laws of meteorology (that He set in motion at the foundation of the world), bypassed those weather principles and specifically CREATED this particular tornado for some reason or another.

Did God act supernaturally in order to create a supernatural weather phenomenon in order to devastate that small town, kill about 120 people and injure many others (including believers and non-believers, children and adults)?

People can pretend that this is something other than a natural weather phenomenon. However, they are just GUESSING. They are not only guessing that God supernaturally created it for a specific purpose outside of natural meteorological laws that He designed at the foundation of the Earth -- but that He purposed to cause the death of many people too.

I do believe that God oversees the events and natural laws of this world. I certainly believe that God can and does step in and intervene on our behalf at times superseding the very laws of nature that He designed. However, the subtle insinuations of a particular "judgment of God" in regard to this tornado remind me quite a bit of those people who loudly proclaimed Hurricane Katrina to be the judgment of God upon the people of New Orleans.

Of course, it was just as odd that some believe that God would choose to kill the poor in New Orleans who were stuck during the hurricane (and failure of the man-made levies) in the RESIDENTIAL neighborhoods (and destroy those areas) -- while allowing the wealthy and the sinful areas to be spared. This is especially true when you consider the cities that are much more sinful and Godless -- like Hollywood...or Beijing...or Tehran.

God would have spared Sodom and Gomorrah if just 10 righteous had been found. Unfortunately, there was just Lot (and possibly his daughters and wife). Yet God safely delivered Lot out of the city. What about the faithful old women in Joplin who died? The children?

No where in Scripture has God ever purposed Himself to KILL the righteous. Yet, from what I have read, some faithful old believers perished in this tornado.

Again, this is why I believe that storms and tragedies like this demonstrate that God has set in motion the laws of nature (including weather). However, I do not believe that God supernaturally bypassed those laws that He created to specifically create a tornado to kill 120 people and destroy 3/4 of the town.

....... ........ .......

We are continuing to pray for you and the residents of Joplin. I do pray that many will turn to Christ after all of this.


_________________
Christopher

 2011/5/24 19:06Profile
lylewise
Member



Joined: 2009/2/20
Posts: 494
Celina, Texas

 Re:

I have talked to no one today who would say God had anything to do with this catastrophy. What a sad state in which we live when men determine based on an image of their own devise, what God will and will not do. Since the rains impede the work of men, they are are supposed to solicite a time of reflection on the very God who brings them. If we cannot trust scripture which speaks to this; Heaven forbid it hail!

He seals the hand of every man that all may know His work.

 2011/5/24 19:22Profile





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