Hi FireinmyBones1,I appreciate your understanding of it also and agree with you that we are all constantly being transformed and learning new things from the Lord. We do have to remain open, don't we? None of us has all the Light. So far, in my experience which of course is absolutely limited, I just have to go with what I said, right? No man can go against his conscious or what has been revealed to him. So, I may be where you were a few years back. And then, maybe not. I am confident the Lord is able to show us. I have walked with Him long enough to already have experienced (like you) that long held views I once had on other things, the Lord has given me new light on. With that said, I will take your interpretation and keep it in mind.God bless,A777
Remember Jesus did not cause the storm on the sea of Galilee, but He did calm it.
FireWhen you learn that Rev 19:11-16 speaking about Christ just as much as Exo 15:3 is speaking about Christ, it all clears up. OJ
Hi Guys, the piece below is by Fank Bartleman. It speaks to the earthquake that hit San Fransico at the turn of the last century and someone posted on SI shortly after the Japanese earthquake. It may serve some purpose here on this thread..........brother FrankBy Frank BartlemanFrank Bartleman was an early leader of the Pentecostal movement at the Azusa Street Mission in Los Angeles, California. He was a central figure in the Azusa Street revival of 1906. His reports published in the holiness press heralded a world-wide revival. Bartlemans journalism helped to inform the world of the Pentecostal renewal and was largely responsible for promoting a revival that is still spreading throughout the world. The following is an excerpt from Azusa Street, Frank Bartlemans chronicle of the birth of the Pentecostal movement.I found the earthquake had opened many hearts. I was distributing especially my last tract, The Last Call. It seemed very appropriate after the earthquake. Sunday, April 22, I took 10,000 of these to the New Testament Church. The workers seized them eagerly and scattered them quickly throughout the city.Nearly every pulpit in the land was working overtime to prove that God had nothing to do with earthquakes and thus allay the fears of the people. The Spirit was striving to knock at hearts with conviction, through this judgment. I felt indignation that the preachers should be used of Satan to drown out His voice. Just as he later used them to stir up hatred and murder, during the great war. Even the teachers in the schools labored hard to convince the children that God was not in earthquakes. The devil put on a big propaganda on this line.I had been much in prayer since the earthquake, and had slept little. After the shock in Los Angeles the Lord told me definitely He had a message for me for the people. On the Saturday after, He gave me a part of it. On Monday the rest was given. I finished writing it at 12:30 a.m. Tuesday, ready for the printer. I kneeled before the Lord and He met me in a powerful way, a powerful witness that the message was from Him. I was to have it printed in the morning. From that time until 4 a.m., I was wonderfully taken up in the spirit of intercession. I seemed to feel the wrath of God against the people and to withstand it in prayer. He showed me He was terribly grieved at their obstinacy in the face of His judgment on sin. San Francisco was a terribly wicked city.He showed me all hell was being moved to drown out His voice in the earthquake, if possible. The message He had given me was to counteract this influence. Men had been denying His presence in the earthquake. Now He would speak. It was a terrific message He had given me. I was to argue the question with no man, but simply give them the message. They would answer to Him. I felt all hell against me in this, and so it proved. I went to bed at 4 oclock, arose at 7, and hurried with the message to the printer.The question in almost every heart was, Did God do that? But instinct taught men on the spot that He had. Even the wicked were conscious of the fact. The tract was set up quickly. The same day it was on the press, and the next noon I had my first consignment of the tract. I was impressed I must hasten and get them to the people as quickly as possible. I was reminded that the ten days I was called by the Lord to prayer was up the very day I received the first of the tracts. I understood it all now, clearly.I distributed the message speedily in the missions, churches, saloons, business houses, and in fact everywhere, both in Los Angeles and Pasadena. Besides I mailed thousands to workers in nearby towns for distribution.Many raved at the message. A man followed me on the street raving like a maniac. He followed me into a business house, to do me violence. But the Lord protected. He then tore my tract up publicly at the curb, to show his hate. Many threw the message down in a rage, only to pick it up again and read it. It seemed God held them to it.Everyone was curious for the tract, though it burned the most of them like fire. Sometimes they would get so excited on the street cars they would get off before they reached their street. My very presence seemed to convict many. The message struck consternation to thousands of souls. I have never written a tract that had so much influence.Sunday, May 11, I had finished my Earthquake tract distribution. Then the burden suddenly left me. My work was done, Seventy-five thousand had been published and distributed in Los Angeles and Southern California, in less than three weeks time. At Oakland, Brother Manley, of his own volition, had printed and distributed 50,000 more, in the Bay Cities and round about, in about the same space of time. The following are some extracts from the Earthquake tract:But what had God to do with earthquakes? When Thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world learn righteousness (Isaiah 26:9). Which removeth the mountains, when He overturneth them in His anger, which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble (Job 9:5-6). The mountains quake at Him, and the hills melt; and the earth is upheaved at His presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein. His fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are broken asunder by Him (Nahum 1:5-6). And I will punish the world for their evil. Therefore I will make the heavens to tremble, and the earth shall be shaken our of her place, in the day of His fierce anger (Isaiah 13:11, 13).Then the earth shook and trembled, the foundations also of the mountains moved, and were shaken because He was wroth. There went up a smoke in His wrath, and fire out of His mouth devoured. The Lord thundered from Heaven, and the Most High uttered His voice. Then the channels of the sea appeared, the foundations of the world were laid bare, by the rebuke of the Lord, at the blast of the breath of His anger (Psalm 18).Behold, the Lord maketh the earth empty, and turneth it upside down (perverteth the face thereof), and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof. The foundations of the earth do shake, the earth is utterly broken, the earth is moved exceedingly. The earth shall stagger like a drunken man, and shall be moved to and fro. The transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it. (Isaiah 24:1, 18, 20). Thou shalt be visited of the Lord of Hosts with earthquakes, and great noise, and the flame of a devouring fire. (Isaiah 29:6). Men shall go into the caves of the rocks, from before the terror of the Lord, when he arises to shake terribly the earth (Isaiah 2:19). And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air and there was a great earthquake (Revelation 16:17,18).And will you claim there is no God in earthquakes? John Wesley has said, Of all the judgments which the righteous God inflicts on sinners here, the most dreadful and destructive is an earthquake. From Earthquake Tract, April 1906.The San Francisco earthquake was surely the voice of God to the people on the Pacific Coast. It was used mightily in conviction, for the gracious after revival. In the early Azusa days both heaven and hell seemed to have come to town.Excepted from Frank Bartlemans, Azusa Street, Plainfield, NJ: Logos Intl., 1980.
Brother good article. I will not presume as to why an F4 tornado stuck Joplin. Was Joplin more sinful than Little Rock? The answer being NO. But one thing we do know of is tornadoes. We watch the weather warnings and when the sirens go off we take shelter. May I add one more thing we call on Jesus for salvation and protection. I would challenge a Moslem or Buddhist or Hindu or an athiest to call out to their whatever to save them when looking at an F4 or 5 funnel coming toward them. The only name that will save them is Jesus. When I saw the phone videos of the tragedy in Joplin there were those calling on Jesus to be saved. In the end is that not what it is about. Salvation in Jesus. Our prayers go put to the people in Joplin.
"Nearly every pulpit in the land was working overtime to prove that God had nothing to do with earthquakes and thus allay the fears of the people. The Spirit was striving to knock at hearts with conviction, through this judgment. I felt indignation that the preachers should be used of Satan to drown out His voice. Just as he later used them to stir up hatred and murder, during the great war. Even the teachers in the schools labored hard to convince the children that God was not in earthquakes. The devil put on a big propaganda on this line."Thanks Frank! This is a very good example of how God uses natural disasters in judgement. Many Christians don't want to hear this. They see all disasters as coming from the devil. It is not much different now than it was in Jeremiah's day. The people want to hear peace and prosperity coming from the mouths of the prophets. They do not want to hear of judgement because they do not want to repent. Judgement will do one of two things. It will either awaken the people to repentance or it will harden their hearts. May the intercessors stand in the gap and cry out for mercy for our land. Mike
Thanks for that timely article brother Frank.
The amazing thing about the OT prophets is that their writings still speak as forcibly today as they did when they were originally penned. And they are just as much rejected today as they were back then.Thanks for sharing this article.
Hi twayneb,It is great to hear from you, brother! My wife and I were holding you and your family in our prayers. We appreciate the update!
Oracio: I am NOT talking about Deism (think I need to make that clear up front) but there are things that God does not control directly. One obvious is the will of man, but I think we can all agree that God will allow you to choose as you will. But I believe the same of weather. Has God and does God sometimes use weather, i.e. control it directly? I believe so. Does He always do it? Not by a long shot. He established weather patterns, sin corrupted them, and much of what happens is simply the natural happenings of weather. Remember Jesus did not cause the storm on the sea of Galilee, but He did calm it.
Veronica226 wrote:I suppose then the question could be asked, how many children did God kill in the Flood? Hundreds? thousands? millions? We must remember that God is NOT a tame lion. And that He says "I kill and I make alive." (Deut 32:39) God has the right to take life whenever or wherever.
I have talked to no one today who would say God had anything to do with this catastrophy. What a sad state in which we live when men determine based on an image of their own devise, what God will and will not do. Since the rains impede the work of men, they are are supposed to solicite a time of reflection on the very God who brings them. If we cannot trust scripture which speaks to this; Heaven forbid it hail! He seals the hand of every man that all may know His work.