SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : Joplin , MO, takes a big hit by a tornado

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 Next Page )
PosterThread
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4537


 Re:

Hi OldJoe,

Quote:

To answer clearly, YES God purposely decided to bring about that tornado and destroy that town. For some it will be an act of judgment, but for others it will be an act of mercy.



Thanks for clearing that up. I disagree with the opinion that God bypassed regular weather patterns that He set in motion and supernaturally created this tornado as an act of punishment and judgment upon the men, women and children of that small town.

I have read reports where faithful believers were killed during this disaster. So, this particular assumption implies that God killed believers and unbelievers in Joplin (and the livelihood of many others). Since when has God poured out His judgment, wrath and death upon His own people – who have overcome evil by the blood of the Lamb?

I do believe that God oversees the world. He set the world (including its order) into motion “in the beginning” when He created it. I believe that God can control all of it as He sees fit – including things like weather, gravity, the length of days, etc… And, of course, I believe that God can intervene by bypassing the very laws of nature that He designed. Still, I feel that this tornado was the result of weather. Chances are that there will probably be another tornado today (somewhere) – since the U.S. averages over around 1,200 per year.

But, like anonymous777 said, we need to be quite careful that we aren’t attributing emphatically that this was some form of judgment from God (in the “punishment” or “wrath” connotation of the word “judgment”) less we find ourselves voicing the same assumptions that Job did – of which God ultimately questioned (in Job 38-41). That questioning from the Lord (out of a whirlwind, no less) led to Job admitting, “Therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not” (Job 42:1-3).

Quote:

Chris

Question for you:

If you lived in the tornado zone and it MISSED your house, would you be thankful to God? Why or why not?



Interestingly, I have been in a house that was hit by a tornado.

It happened while I was alone in one of the Church parsonages where I volunteered after graduating high school (and before starting college). I awoke to a knock at my door during the wee hours of the morning. I looked at the clock and wondered who could be knocking on my door. Then (while I still lay in my bed), I noticed that it was storming and hailing loudly and violently outside, so I thought that it might have just been the wind at my door. However, I then heard that same knock again (just like the knock when someone is standing at the door).

I assumed that a stranded driver might have been knocking for help. So, I quickly put on a pair of pants and headed to the door (in my kitchen). I looked out the window to see who it was, but I didn’t see anyone there (although I couldn’t see the entire porch). So, I cracked opened the door slightly and said, “Hello?” At that moment, I heard a lot of loud wind and other noise and the door literally slammed shut.

I thought that I should go into the restroom in case a tornado was coming. I noticed that the electricity went out. So, I made my way into the hall and headed toward the bathroom. At that moment, lightning flashed. I realized that the light was flashing through my attic door (in the hall ceiling). I couldn’t open the bathroom door, so I tried to open my bedroom door. It seemed “stuck,” so I literally pushed it open. I noticed that it was raining/hailing inside of my bedroom and that I could see sky.

Little did I know that the very moment that I had opened the door, a tornado had struck my house. It literally ripped off the entire roof of my house – except a little bit of the roof over my porch and kitchen next to the porch (where I was standing). At the time, I simply thought that part of my roof had caved in or blown in from the storm. The ceiling was still hanging in the kitchen and hallway, so I didn’t know the extent of the damage.

As a teenager, I was a bit frightened. I couldn’t get into my bedroom, so I decided that I would take a butter knife and try to pop the lock at the Church (located next door). So, I ran outside in a pair of pants without a shirt holding a butter knife to the Church. There was an old lock for one of the doors that was easy to pop, but as I ran, I remembered that the church had just changed that lock to a deadbolt. So, I decided to try another door. The Church’s large kitchen was always dead-bolted, because the door gets stuck. However, I desperately tried that door first (because it was still hailing).

Not only was that door unlocked, but there was still power. The light was on, and there was a warm, dry towel neatly folded on the buffet counter. I immediately used it to dry off. I was a bit frightened and got on my knees and prayed. I felt the Lord comfort me with the words, “I am with you…always” repeated in my mind. I got up and decided to try the telephone. It worked. I called my oldest sister (who had recently married and still lived in town). Her husband answered the phone, and I told him that I thought that part of my roof collapsed and asked if he could pick me up.

My brother-in-law arrived a few minutes later. I asked him if we could drive by the house to see what type of damage had been done. When we pulled up to the side of the house opposite to the kitchen porch, I noticed that the windows were all blown out or missing. From the car, I was looking on the ground (with the headlights) and mentioned that the windows were missing and that I couldn’t see the air conditioner unit. My brother-in-law said, “Chris, your roof didn’t just collapse. It isn’t even there!” So, I praised God for His protection and went to my sister’s house. I told them the story about the knock at the door…and they were moved to pray.

A few hours later, I went back to the house at the break of dawn. I noticed several large electric company trucks, policemen and firemen outside. The telephone pole was about to fall and was literally a few feet away from falling on my vehicle. Part of the roof and some other debris was on the ground in front of my house. So, I asked the police officer if I could go inside. He asked me why I wanted to go inside, and I told him that this was my home.

The police officer checked with the power company worker nearby, and he said, “Man, you are lucky you weren’t in that house last night. You could have been killed!” I told them that I was in the house, and about the knock, and the rest of my experience. They looked at me, and at the house, and said, “Man, someone is looking out for you!” They let me go inside to get my keys and wallet. They helped me push my bedroom door open and even helped me find my keys (the room looked like a disaster area). They asked me if I go to church here, and I said yes. One of them said that he thinks that he needs to start attending right away. He started attending that Sunday morning and was still attending when I moved.

I later found out that a tornado had hit my home, the mall across the street (damaging and pulling off part of the roof) and it also damaged several homes and businesses along the path. Damage wasn’t too severe (compared with major tornadoes)…and no one lost their life. Two of the church’s signs were destroyed and a few cars, mobile homes and the occasional roof were damaged.

So, yes, I do know that God can protect people during a storm. Now, I have thought about the events of that day many times since. Why did God allow the storm to hit? He is omnipotent and could have easily calmed the storm. However, I have never once accused God of having formed the storm. Moreover, I concluded that God’s ways are much higher than my own – and that I shouldn’t theorize WHY such things happen. I should simply and wholeheartedly serve God regardless of any circumstances. One interesting effect is that I am less frightened by my circumstances. If the Lord would protect me from a tornado by a knock on my door, then I am confident that He will protect me for His good purposes. I am the clay; He is the potter. This event allowed me to realize just how well He directs my steps.

By the way, that particular tornado formed when a powerful cold front swept through Texas (where I was living at the time) during a period of very warm weather. In other words, it was a typical tornadic weather phenomenon that occurs when cold air slams into warm air. However, I am keenly aware that God is NOT bound by the order that He created in regard to nature, physics, or other sciences. Those things are obedient to Him and not the other way around.

If I was in Joplin and the tornado missed my house and hit the neighbor’s home and led to their death, I would have wept. You see, I know where I am going when I die. To live is Christ – but to die is gain! Death has lost its sting and victory. An eternity with Christ is something to look forward to when we know that we will ultimately break this shell of humanity and be united with Him. However, the thought of a neighbor dying without Christ would be the ultimate tragedy.

Again, I am a bit concerned that some might meander into the same sort of unprofitable pondering and assumption that Job did when provoked by his “friends.” We should not pretend to know and understand all of the ways of God. Some of those things just will never make sense to us on a cognitive level – because they are too wonderful for us. However, we can rest assured that nothing escapes God’s oversight. During the first six days of creation, He set the world to an order that He designed. Yet, we know that He is not bound by that order. Many times, He intervenes on our behalf because He knows our needs (before we even ask) and often answers our prayers when we do not pray amiss.

The Lord bless you and keep you. I am praying for the people of Joplin, Oklahoma and other areas affected by such tragedy.


_________________
Christopher

 2011/5/25 13:46Profile









 Re:

Quote:
I have read reports where faithful believers were killed during this disaster. So, this particular assumption implies that God killed believers and unbelievers in Joplin (and the livelihood of many others). Since when has God poured out His judgment, wrath and death upon His own people – who have overcome evil by the blood of the Lamb?



Again, we have to look at Job. Although, God did not kill him, he had Job undergo severe suffering. In Job's case, we have the luxury of understanding why. God chose to let us know.

Believers are bought with a price and are not their own. God does reserve the right to bring anything in our lives that He deems necessary for His glory.

Our God who is a redemptive God, and has a reason for everything that He allows even if we don't understand it.

Many Believers have died through the centuries in "acts of God" disasters.

Who understands these things?

We just need to trust that our God knows what He is doing and is not missing anything by napping.

I don't think we will be standing before God asking Him "why did you let mother nature kill me?"

A777

 2011/5/25 14:36
Lotis
Member



Joined: 2006/9/26
Posts: 84


 Re:

Chris, thank you for sharing that story. Those were good words, and I heard them, lots of people following this will read your words and not really hear them, but I did. Thanks brother, much love to you.

To be frank, if I were to read many of the posts on this forum without taking into account the people personally, this God you describe is ruthless, cruel and no one I would ever be interested in serving. But fortunately for myself, I understand that while God is sovereign and will do as he wills, he is good and he is love first and foremost.

Sometimes I feel we view God as a sick war mongering beast who enjoys taking human life, God the father is viewed properly in only one way friends, and that is through Jesus Christ, who was his perfect representation. Mercy triumphs over all, much love.


_________________
John

 2011/5/25 14:45Profile









 Re:

He is the same God that allowed is very own Son to be mocked, tortured and slain. A God who was pleased with His Son's bruises (torture) and grief.

Who put Jesus to grief?

Isaiah 53:10
Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

A777

P.S. When people suffer it is good to help them look at Jesus Christ and His sufferings for them.

 2011/5/25 14:54
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2094
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Lotis wrote:

Quote:
he is good and he is love first and foremost.



Friend, with all due respect, the love of God is not the attribute that is most emphasized in God's Word. Rather, it is His holiness which is emphasized more than all other attributes. The holiness of God is the only attribute which is declared three times in a row. When Isaiah saw the Lord high and lifted up on His throne, he heard the seraphim call out to one another, "Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts; the whole earth is full of His glory!" In Revelation we also read of John hearing the same declaration from the four living creatures.
Yes, God is love, but He is also holy and righteous and hates sin. The problem with emphasizing the love of God above all other attributes of God is that we get an incorrect view of who God is. Many today emphasize God's love to the extent of dismissing His holiness and righteousness and judgment against sin. And many create that kind of god in their minds to suite their sins, a god whom they are comfortable with. It is called idolatry, creating an idol, a false image of God in our minds.


_________________
Oracio

 2011/5/25 16:08Profile
rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1262


 Re:

Ginnyrose, OJ, and others who believe that God deliberately sent that storm to Joplin as a judgment to kill and destroy those people and their lives because of what Obama did or because of their own sins. I would like to clarify something that I didn’t get to do before I bowed out and since this thread has really increased I feel the need to state my understanding a little and leave it with you all to accuse or approve.

First of all I fear God above all and know that He is in ultimate control and can do anything He desires to do because he is God and is above all His creation. People need to fear, respect, and love Him supremely. I believe God has already judged the world according to Acts 17:30-31 (KJV) 30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: 31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

Jesus said in Luke 13:1-5 (KJV) 1 There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. 2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things? 3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. 4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem? 5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Also in Luke 9:53-56 (KJV) 53 And they did not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem. 54 And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did? 55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of. 56 For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.

Let me say this again I know that God is in complete control but I also know he allows things to go on that is not to His liking but He puts up with it according to His long suffering and we are not to presume that just because something happens that we know God wanted to do this or that we know why he did it. We are not to speak for God in matters that are higher than our little finite being. We are also not to have a wrong spirit toward the calamities of others because we all are only saved by the grace of God.

Obviously God has not intervened to stop all the disasters many have experienced on a wide scale and He has his reasons, for Hs is God and He knows all His works from eternity and those that are not His works but allows them to continue until He completes His work of redemption.

Also I agree with Ron’s post.


Quote:
There is much speculation in this thread, wouldn't you agree?

Wouldn't you also agree that even if Adam didn't originally have dominion "over all the earth", that things aren't the way they were originally intended to be? The whole of creation groans under the weight of sin and there is suffering and pain in the world as a result. This is why I say that when these things come upon the earth I don't think about God judging a particular people, but rather a deeper hatred for sin is stirred in me.

Quote:
Read Job 38 and you will see that God controls all the elements



God's sovereignty over creation is not in question when we say that God in His sovereignty gave Adam dominion over His creation as he walked in subjection to God.



I also was blessed by your testimony Chris and agree that we should praise and thank God for His protection because it is only by His mercy and grace that we are even spared His judgment of our sins, and all because of Calvary and God's great Love to us in sparing not His own Son but delivering Him up for us all. How shall He not freely give us all good things because of His Son's sacrifice.

I also believe that wrath is being stored up for those who reject His Son and do not come to love the truth and they will be destroyed in the end. I just don't believe it's my place to judge why some people experience disasters and I will certainly not say that God specifically picked them out to kill or destroy them. I fear God too much and realized I deserve no better but am only spared by the mercy of God.

There is a difference in warning people than in casting judgment on people as being from God. I just don't feel like I have a right to be God's spokes person to represent Him in such a manner. If I am going to err I had rather it be on the side of Grace and mercy than judgment.

James 2:8-13 (KJV) 8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: 9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. 10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. 13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

Blessings to you all!

 2011/5/25 16:18Profile
Lotis
Member



Joined: 2006/9/26
Posts: 84


 Re:

Quote:
The problem with emphasizing the love of God above all other attributes of God is that we get an incorrect view of who God is.



My image of God is Christ, as Hebrews 1 tells me he is. Christ is righteous and holy its oh so true, but I fear in our attempt to move away from a "Love without Holiness" God we have created a "Holiness without Love" God. The reality is he is Holy and he is Love, and that Holy Love is what drove him to the cross to make us righteous, what he did there on the cross was demonstrate his love for us the bible says. So yes he is Holy yes he is Righteous, but no, I would say the overarching greater emphasized attribute of God in EVERYTHING is his love.


_________________
John

 2011/5/25 16:31Profile









 Re:

Everything God does is deliberate, everything God allows is deliberate. Nothing is accidental and He is never caught napping where His children are concerned. We serve a deliberate God.

I just wanted to say that I never said why God is allowing these storms because frankly, I don't know. He has not revealed that to me.

A777

 2011/5/25 16:44
rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1262


 Re:

Quote:
Everything God does is deliberate, everything God allows is deliberate. Nothing is accidental and He is never caught napping where His children are concerned. We serve a deliberate God. I just wanted to say that I never said why God is allowing these storms because frankly, I don't know. He has not revealed that to me. A777





Thanks A777 for your clarification and honesty. I can appreciate it and also agree with it.

Blessings to you!

 2011/5/25 16:50Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7504
Mississippi

 Re:

Quote:

1. God did not intervene to stop these storms.
2. We are not hapless victims of circumstances or "nature".
3. Man does not view these storms as blessings. We don't know how God views them or what His many purposes are in allowing them.
4. There is a reason for everything that God allows.
5. Job did not view the natural elements that wreaked havoc on his family as blessings.
6. As Job says, "are we to take good from the Lord and not bad also?"
7. Job viewed all of the "natural" tragedies as coming from God's hand. The greatest power in this world is God. He can stop it but He chose not to. And, as Job says, "The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away, blessed be the name of the Lord."



Well said. I agree 100% because this is the way I understand scripture.

It is very hard for moderns to reconcile a loving Father with one who also can pour out wrath upon his creation. We think we need to understand his reasons and apart from it we will reject it.

Consider Hebrews 12:5-11 KJV

5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:

6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

7If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.

11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

When I was a little girl, my parents spanked me when I was naughty. Did I deserve it? At the time I sure did not think so, but they were certain I did and as a parent I know they were right - I did it likewise to my children.

As adults we think we are too big to be whooped but scripture does not say so. According to Hebrews 12 we will be chastened if we are His sons. If we experience no chastisement then we are bastards.

Now about the people at Joplin: do I think they were guilty of some horrific sin to justify such severe chastisement? I have no clue, however, given the nature of man, being carnal, I would guess God was being kind in not destroying every last one of them, but allowed them to be frightened so they will think of their own standing before God Almighty. AND it will also give His children opportunities to assist the survivors with their physical and spiritual needs.

We, too, experienced tornadoes on April 27 - we got word that one is headed our way and is scheduled to reach our town at 3:15 PM. What did I do? I ran: got in the car and got my husband and we were out of there. Later some folks saw three of them side by side in the field .75 mile from our greenhouses. And if it had touched down at our place? Well, several years ago one did, seriously damaged the one house.

And I still believe God is in control and that He uses disasters to teach people and draw them to himself.

My understanding...


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2011/5/25 18:52Profile





©2002-2021 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy