SermonIndex Audio Sermons
SermonIndex - Promoting Revival to this Generation
Give To SermonIndex
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : "A Christian's Freewill & Those Days"

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 Next Page )
PosterThread









 Re: "A Christian's Freewill & Those Days"


I haven't read most of this thread (no offence intended - been busy) but the last couple of pages. The following verses have always fascinated me, since I listened to Iain Murray's sermon called Prayer and the Future, where he majored on Isa 45:11, after reading the whole chapter. He captures something about RELATIONSHIP with God, as He desires (wills) it, and as we should benefit if we obey His declaration 'Command ye me'. I know this may seem to be off the track of 'free' will, but it has a lot to do with the renewing of our minds, and God's willingness to let us set the pace of our 'willing' walk with Him. (Or, our walking in agreement with His declaration that we are not as like Him as we could be if we invite Him to work in us.)

(I hope that doesn't sound too complicated, but I'm aware it's more than possible, and very tempting, to be complacent about these things. Here, God urges us to be pro-active.)

Isaiah 45
1 Thus saith the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut; 2 I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron: 3 And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the LORD, which call [thee] by thy name, [am] the God of Israel.


9 Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! [Let] the potsherd [strive] with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands? 10 Woe unto him that saith unto [his] father, What begettest thou? or to the woman, What hast thou brought forth? 11 Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me. 12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, [even] my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded. 13 I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways: he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives, not for price nor reward, saith the LORD of hosts.

{direct: or, make straight}


https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=3576


Now, please don't think I've posted these verses to support more of God's sovereignty and less of free will, or more of man's sovereignty and less of God's free will, because I didn't. I believe no-one has a 'free' will, until they've heard the gospel. But, God has made it that we can be aware of our sin, such that we seek to be rid of it, and by that mechanism, we can deliberately seek Him, and change our behaviour to a certain extent. But only that, is not salvation. And, there are people who come to the cross for salvation (and receive it) but find themselves unwilling to walk the way of the cross IN PRINCIPLE, and no matter how Jesus Christ woos them to follow, they resist. So, I see that free will for a Christian, or a non-Christian, is a continuum along a timeline IN RELATIONSHIP WITH the Father, (instinctively seeking to know and please Him), rather than a possession to acquire for use at personal leisure for other things (however religiously related).


Mostly, we don't see just how much we need the desires of our hearts brought into line with God's, and this leaves us with the impression (as does doctrine which majors on feeling 'led', or 'anointed' (though these have their place)) that if God hasn't borne in upon us in a certain way, then our time is ours to please ourselves. In the past, major emphasis was put upon duty, and it's only after duty has become unavoidable that we find with amazement, that such obedience has worked character in us, which could have been formed no other way.


Jesus-is-GOD, I hope I haven't thrown your thread off track!

 2011/4/11 7:59
mguldner
Member



Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1862
Kansas

 Re:

I have heard this explained simply as Salvation is like a coin, one side is free will one side is predestination but no matter how you flip the coin you still have Salvation.

I believe there is a fine balance between the two and will say that I sit on the fence happily when it comes to this issue because really we can't know until we get there and God is like yeah you guys all were wrong, GOTCHA. But I think that is the beauty of our God He is a wonderous mystery and even in Heaven though we will have a clear picture of Him in His Glory we will be learning of and from Him for all Eternity.

So in reality, is this debate profitable? It sure can be if its leading you all deeper into the things of Christ Jesus and isn't driving a wedge of disunity among the brethen, Remember we are a operate and work as if we are the lowest of the low despite our bible knowledge.

Phil 2:1-3
"1Therefore if there is any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any affection and mercy, 2 fulfill my joy by being like-minded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. 3 Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself."


_________________
Matthew Guldner

 2011/4/11 8:20Profile









 Re:

Hi AiG. Please feel free to post here. You've taken nothing away from the conversation.

I have held my beliefs for all of my saved life, but have tried very hard to always (past tense) stay open minded on this very important issue, even regarding the Church that I'm still a member of and no plans to do otherwise.

I believe that you know my stand on "predestination" but I feel to maybe post it one more time.

I by no means believe that GOD formed any man for the purpose to send them to Hell. That would contradict all else ever written about Him - for one - "GOD 'IS' LOVE".


I don't believe He always puts things in plain sight for us because He does want us to 'seek Him' and that sometimes take 'digging' into His Mind by His Word and Prayer.

I believe "the elect are those whom He 'foreknew' would love Him of their own accord" - just as a woman loves a man or a child their father --- not by force, but willingly.

These Scriptures are what I see are just the hint of why I believe so -

In Romans 9-11 Paul is discussing the "Jews" -

Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which He FOREKNEW.

And these two verses regard both Jews and Gentiles -

1Pe 1:2 Elect according to the FOREKNOWLEDGE of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Rom 8:29 For whom He did FOREKNOW, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.


His Omniscience is the whole of His Foreknowledge.

With the Jews - He Knew how Abraham would respond to His invitation.

I believe we are all "the world", are "invited" and it is backed by multiple Scriptures.

He foreknew who would accept this invitation and come in, as He presents in one of His parables.

Once we have "come" I define His "sovereignty" as that of a man's protectiveness over his Bride or his Children and in this case with our GOD, it's both.
He protects, causes all things to work together for Good and so forth.
He knows who will come to Him future tense as well. From the foundations of the world, He's known. Yet, the "Invitation to come" has been open to all - even by His creation (Rom 1).

He created man to Love them and to have that Relationship that you've mentioned - Amen.

This belief does not take away any of His Majesty in the slightest. His commands to "husbands" and "fathers" is what He 'is' Himself to us. He fulfills any and all commands given to us and is not the type Father to say - "Do as I say - not what I do."

It became obvious to me that we can leave Him - just as part of Israel did in the O.T. and as the verses followings Romans 11:2 (partially quoted above) read - it goes on to say
Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
Rom 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

GOD elected "grace". How we read His Word has made all the difference in the world with our soteriology. The Pharisees couldn't understand "grace" - they couldn't come to Him "by grace alone" but the sinful woman who fell at His feet, Knew there was no other way for her to come near Him - no rightousness of her own - "a wretch like me".


I'm glad you posted AtG. I'm not 'perky' today but am happy to begin this conversation with someone who may understand my view and reason for starting a thread (and how it's something I wouldn't do unless I felt truly burdened).



Thank you!




{eta: presently downloading your link. Pokey dial-up.}

 2011/4/11 11:16









 Re: "A Christian's Freewill & Those Days"



Thanks for your warm welcome, JiG,

I've read the opening post now, and see better what was on your mind. I hope you enjoy Iain Murray's offering when you finally listen. In the meantime, I can't remember of you were online when this thread was posted by philologos, hot on the heels of the conference in Greenock, Scotland, where many of us met for the first time.

He called it (with respect to the Church's woes), Just who IS responsible for this state of affairs... ? Needless to say, various opinions were aired. In general though, it is a good read which will enable those who take up the challenge, to work out whether what they've been taught is actually scriptural, or, at least, supportable from scripture. Again, the matter of relationship with God and how He expects that to work, is central to understanding Ron Bailey's direction.

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=26547&forum=40&start=0&viewmode=flat&order=0

 2011/4/11 15:01
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

www.gotquestions.org

So we need to ask ourselves how does libertarian free will fit in with God’s sovereignty? Can a human being, a creature, be autonomous if God is sovereign? The obvious conclusion is that libertarian free will is incompatible with the sovereignty of God. Consider this passage from the book of Proverbs: “In his heart a man plans his course, but the LORD determines his steps” (Proverbs 16:9). This does not paint a picture of man as an autonomous being, but rather as man operating within the confines of a sovereign God.


Man is not a “law unto himself.” Man is a creature in the Creator’s universe, and as such is subject to the will of the Creator. To suggest otherwise is to elevate man beyond his station and to bring God down to the level of the creature. Those who advocate libertarian free will may not come out and say this, but logically speaking, this is the conclusion that must be drawn. Consider a popular evangelistic slogan found in Christian gospel tracts: “God casts his vote for you, Satan casts his vote against you, but you have the deciding vote.” Is this how it works in salvation? Is God just one side of a cosmic struggle with Satan for the souls of men, who must resort to ”campaign tactics” to sway voters to heaven? This view of God is an emasculated God who is desperately hoping mankind utilizes his free will to choose Him. Frankly, but this is a somewhat pathetic view of God. If God wills to save someone, that person will be saved because God accomplishes all His purposes.

Now, we must be careful not to swing to the (equally) unbiblical view that God is the divine Puppet Master and we are merely His puppets. This is the view of hard determinism in which man is reduced to an automaton making robotic responses to situations. The Bible presents a third option between hard determinism and libertarian free will, and that is the view called compatibilism, or soft determinism. In this view, man makes real choices and will be held responsible by God for those choices. The choices that man makes emanate from his desires. God grants the creature a certain amount of freedom, but that freedom always operates within the boundaries of God’s sovereignty.

Now by embracing this view, we must avoid two errors. The first is to posit what is called “middle knowledge.” The doctrine of middle knowledge teaches that God created a world out of the infinite number of worlds He had available to Him to create, and God chose that particular world in which free creatures made the very decisions that accomplished His will. The second error to avoid is to think that God is somehow a cosmic manipulator setting up situations so that His creatures freely make the choices that accomplish His will.

There are two keys to understanding human will and how it relates to God’s sovereignty. The first is the fall. Prior to the fall, man could be said to have had a “free” will in that he was free to obey God or disobey God. After the fall, man’s will was corrupted by sin to the point where he fully lost the ability to willingly obey God. This doesn’t mean that man can’t outwardly obey God. Rather, man cannot perform any spiritual good that is acceptable to God or has any salvific merit. The Bible describes man’s will as “dead in transgressions and sins” (Ephesians 2:1) or as “slaves to sin” (Romans 6:17). These phrases describe man as both unable and unwilling to submit to God’s sovereign authority; therefore, when man makes choices according to his desires, we must remember that man’s desires are depraved and corrupted and wholly rebellious toward God.

The second key in harmonizing man’s “free” will with God’s sovereignty is how God accomplishes His desires. When God ordains all things that come to pass (Psalm 33:11; Ephesians 1:11), He not only ordains the ends, but the means as well. God ordains that certain things will happen and He also ordains how they will happen. Human choices are one of the means by which God accomplishes His will. For proof of this point, look no further than the exodus. God tells Moses that He will harden Pharaoh’s heart so that God’s glory in the deliverance of Israel would be manifest through him (Exodus 4:21). However, as the narrative continues, we see that Pharaoh hardens his own heart (Exodus 8:15). God’s will and man’s will converge.

In conclusion, we must try to understand the effort to import libertarian free will into the Scriptures. The reasoning is usually to preserve human autonomy because it is seen as the key to moral responsibility. This is also done to preserve God’s justice. God cannot be seen as just if He would condemn those who cannot choose against their depraved wills. Yet in these attempts to preserve God’s justice and human responsibility, damage is done to the Scriptures. The Bible emphatically affirms human responsibility for sin and God’s justice, but it also clearly rejects libertarian free will. Scripture clearly affirms that 1) God is sovereign over all affairs, including the affairs of man; and 2) man is responsible for his rebellion against a holy God. The fact that we cannot completely harmonize these two biblical truths should not cause us to reject either one. Things seem impossible to us often simply because we do not have the mind of God. It is true that we can’t expect to understand the mind of God perfectly, as He reminds us, “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, says the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts” (Isaiah 55:8-9). Nevertheless, our responsibility to God is to believe His Word, to obey Him, to trust Him and to submit to His will, whether we understand it or not.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2011/4/11 18:14Profile









 Re:

I prepared this below - quick post - offline earlier today and before seeing your post Philip.

I read this thing you've posted and can see me taking this down to Central Park (New York) and reading it to the unsaved folks there that we'd like to witness to. I'm sure it would go over really well.


Been busy with Dad all day AtG, but did listen to your linked message and remember that thread and had posted to it on the last page.

I just pulled a few Scriptures together and put just a few comments with most of them....



"Whosoever Will, Come"


Mat 11:28 COME unto me, ALL ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
[Does He mean "All"?]


Joh 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If ANY man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
[Does He mean "Any"?]


Mat 19:14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.
[Except for those that He's damned from the foundation of the world?]


Mat 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
[He gave the rich man a 'choice'. Did He give a man a choice that was predestined for Hell so that he Couldn't choose to follow? Does GOD work that way? To invite those who cannot be saved?]


Mar 8:34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
["Whosoever will" John 3:16]


Luk 15:27 And he said unto him, Thy brother is come; and thy father hath killed the fatted calf, because he hath received him safe and sound.
[No one forced the prodigal to return - he just came to himself when all that he had dried up.]


Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
[How could He condemn them if He chose them for Hell against their will?]


Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Joh 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
[Could they not 'come' to Him because they were 'predestined' by His Own Will to NOT Come and so weren't given by Him the 'will' to come?]


2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, NOT WILLING THAT ANY SHOULD PERISH, but that ALL should come to repentance
[Is He lying here?]


1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, BUT ALSO FOR THE SINS OF THE WHOLE WORLD.
[Is He lying again?]


Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, COME. And let him that heareth say, COME. And let him that is athirst come. And WHOSOEVER WILL, let him take the water of life freely.

 2011/4/11 20:49









 Re:


Again, please forgive the caps used for emphasis. Having a time trying to get used to posting without codes. I'll survive it, if you can bear the caps.

The LORD has laid this on my heart. He may have not laid this on other's hearts, so this is not a blanket indictment.

Thanks!!


Rom 12:8 Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with SIMPLICITY; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness.


2Co 1:12 For our rejoicing is this, the testimony of our conscience, that in SIMPLICITY and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom, but by the grace of God, we have had our conversation in the world, and more abundantly to you-ward.


2Co 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the SIMPLICITY that is in Christ.


 2011/4/11 21:32









 Re: "A Christian's Freewill & Those Days"




Hi JiG, I'm going to look at John 3:19 from a slight different set of scriptures.

God has been, is, and will be - blameless for the choices men make, which lead to their final destinations spiritually and eternally, because they make them ALL in the light of His countenance, and deep down, they know that.

For instance:
Genesis 8:22 While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.

Proverbs 15:3 The eyes of the LORD [are] in every place, beholding the evil and the good.

Matthew 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.


Jesus said He came for people who are already at a disadvantage:
Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord [is] upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord... 21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

[Isaiah 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD [is] upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to [them that are] bound; 2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn; 3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified. 4 And they shall build the old wastes, they shall raise up the former desolations, and they shall repair the waste cities, the desolations of many generations.]


The law of Moses said:
Leviticus 19:34 [But] the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I [am] the LORD your God.

Jesus said:
Luke 14:12 Then said he also to him that bade him, When thou makest a dinner or a supper, call not thy friends, nor thy brethren, neither thy kinsmen, nor [thy] rich neighbours; lest they also bid thee again, and a recompence be made thee. 13 But when thou makest a feast, call the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind: 14 And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just.


Jesus showed unconditional compassion: (See also Mark 3.)
Matthew 12:15 '... and great multitudes followed him, and he healed them ALL;


Paul said:
Romans 1:14 I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise. 15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also. 16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest IN them; FOR GOD HATH SHEWED [it] UNTO THEM.


A wise man said there was no return from adultery:
Proverbs 7:26 For she hath cast down many wounded: yea, many strong [men] have been slain by her. 27 Her house [is] the way to hell, going down to the chambers of death.

But John records:
John 8:9 And they which heard [it], being convicted by [their own] conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, [even] unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? 11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more. 12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

John 16:7 Nevertheless I [Jesus} tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 Of sin, because they believe not on me; 10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; 11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

Matthew 26:38 Then saith he [Jesus] unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me. 39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless NOT AS I WILL, BUT AS THOU [wilt]. 40 And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour? 41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed [is] willing, but the flesh [is] weak.


Peter said:
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to US-ward, not willing that ANY should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance... 14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, BE DILIGENT that YE MAY be found OF HIM in peace, without spot, AND BLAMELESS. 15 And account [that] the longsuffering of our Lord [is] salvation;




To Jesus-is-GOD,

It seems to me that there are some people who don't mourn over their own sin. God sees this, and tries to wake them up; as Paul quoted in the context of reproving darkness:

Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light. 15 See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise, (Ephesians 5:14)

EVERYONE wakes up. There is NO-ONE that doesn't know something about God, according to many more verses than I quoted above.

Being IN darkness has never, on its own, been 'the condemnation', for we read: For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee,' (Isaiah 60:2), and even in Genesis 1, when darkness covered everything before God commanded the light to shine, after the presence of light came, it did not prevent our first father from choosing to sin.

Matthew reminds us of this:
The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up. Matthew 4:16

And John:
And this is the condemnation: that light is come into the world and men loved darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil. John 3:19

Luke 11:34 The light of the body is the eye: therefore when thine eye is single, thy whole body also is full of light; but when [thine eye] is evil, thy body also [is] full of darkness. 35 Take heed therefore that the light which is IN thee be not darkness.


Carter Conlon reckons that the greatest darkness a person can have IN them, is religious darkness.

But IF WE walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from ALL sin. 1 John 1:7

Romans 2:1 Therefore THOU art inexcusable, O man, WHOSOEVER THOU ART that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. 2 But WE are sure that the judgment of God is ACCORDING TO TRUTH against them which commit such things. 3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? 4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not KNOWING that the GOODNESS of God LEADETH THEE to repentance?



EDIT: I wasn't going to post this when I found it earlier, but it follows Romans 2 well, in that it shows unrepentance is also possible - even to a 'good' king, who had been 'perfect' in his heart towards the Lord.

2 Chronicles 16
9 For the eyes of the LORD run to and fro throughout the whole earth, to shew himself strong in the behalf of [them] whose heart [is] perfect toward him. Herein thou hast done foolishly: therefore from henceforth thou shalt have wars. 10 Then Asa was wroth with the seer, and put him in a prison house; for [he was] in a rage with him because of this [thing]. And Asa oppressed [some] of the people the same time. 11 And, behold, the acts of Asa, first and last, lo, they [are] written in the book of the kings of Judah and Israel. 12 And Asa in the thirty and ninth year of his reign was diseased in his feet, until his disease [was] exceeding [great]: yet in his disease he sought not to the LORD, but to the physicians. 13 And Asa slept with his fathers, and died in the one and fortieth year of his reign. 14 And they buried him in his own sepulchres, which he had made for himself in the city of David, and laid him in the bed which was filled with sweet odours and divers kinds [of spices] prepared by the apothecaries' art: and they made a very great burning for him.

{oppressed: Heb. crushed}

It takes a lot of spiced oils to hide the smell of death. Jesus Christ was wrapped in them for us, in His death for the sin of the whole world.

 2011/4/12 9:12









 Re:

The enemy does not want us to have a free-will. He would like to control, coerce and force his will upon ours. This is exactly what God does not do.

...God created man with the ABILITY to make decisions
...God gave man FREEDOM OF CHOICE

Man's will is his real self
...The choices of man reveal the character of man

Man's will is the essence of what he is. Choices are made that determine his daily life and his eternal destiny. The Creator gave man a free volition and never moves to force, coerce or control.

ONCE AGAIN: YOUR WILL DETERMINES YOUR DAILY LIFE AND YOUR ETERNAL DESTINY. GOD HAS MADE A WAY THROUGH JESUS CHRIST AND WE MUST WALK (exercise our will) IN THIS WAY by FAITH.

Man's will is that which stands between good and evil, that part of man when joined to God's will brings a union that brings a harmony between creature and Creator and releases the power of God in full salvation.

A man can say "no" to God and God will always respect his choice.

"...Not my will, but thine be done. Luke 22:42

One chooses to make the will of God his own will and pleasure. You decide to submit to His will.

The will of God becomes the goal of living rather than SELF.

REPENTANCE is turning from SELF-LIFE, from YOUR WILL to HIS WILL.

The spiritual life is more than emotions and intellect.
...God aims at the salvation of our will.

Spiritual union comes when man's will is joined to God's.

Out of this union comes OBEDIENCE.

DISOBEDIENCE means to follow one's own will.

One must cease from his own works (WILL).

Out of this union comes ONE HEART.
...Harmony between man's will and God's.

Failure to become ONE HEART with God brings failure such as Lot's wife and Balaam.

Principle: Make no provision for self:
Mat 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

We live unto God.

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.



Quote:
Who made us free from sin? my free will?

Christ has been made unto us righteousness. 1 Cor 1:30

My free will always chooses death, from Adams free will to the second Adam or Last Adam, Christ in the Spirit, all die and not one will choose God.

I through the Spirit is the only way I can defeat sin. Reckon is not a choice, it is to consider as already being done.




Yes, Phillip, no one is saying that our freewill or freedom of choice has made us free from sin. Our sin has been pardoned and this is a provision of the Lord Jesus.

We are never "free" from sin. We are free to NOT sin.

1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

You say that your "freewill always chooses death" and I don't know quite what you mean. Can you explain.

We should be choosing LIFE now. We should be "living unto God".

 2011/4/12 9:25









 Re: "A Christian's Freewill & Those Days"



Hi a777,

Quote:
We are never "free" from sin.

But we ARE 'free' to NOT sin, through the assistance of the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:11 - 13), when we CHOOSE to walk in the Spirit SO THAT WE WILL NOT FULFIL the lusts of the flesh (sin), (Galatians 5:16).

 2011/4/12 9:39





©2002-2024 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Revival to this Generation.
Privacy Policy