SermonIndex Audio Sermons
SermonIndex - Promoting Revival to this Generation
Give To SermonIndex
Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : For some Christians, King James is the only Bible

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | 32 | 33 | 34 | 35 | 36 | 37 | 38 | 39 | 40 | 41 | 42 | 43 | 44 | 45 | 46 | 47 | 48 | 49 | 50 | 51 | 52 Next Page )
PosterThread
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4779


 Re:

Hi anonymous777...

Or are you basing your conclusions about Erasmus upon what others wrote about him? If you want to know what he believed in detail, you should read HANDBOOK OF A CHRISTIAN KNIGHT, THE EDUCATION OF A CHRISTIAN PRINCE and, his last completed work, A PLAIN AND GODLY EXPOSITION OR DECLARATION OF THE COMMON CREDE. Each of these has been translated into English and are available at many public and university libraries. They may also be available at Google Books.

Still, my question wasn't about whether or not Erasmus was a Catholic (his writings indicate that he was), a humanist (his writings indicate that he was) or even whether or not he was ever truly saved (I have no idea). While Erasmus was certainly not a "typical" Catholic and humanist in certain areas, he still embraced ideology that is firmly within the boundaries of Catholicism and humanism.

My question was:

>>> 3. Do you believe that men like Erasmus (a Catholic and humanist) and the translators of the KJV (some who embraced "high church" Catholic-lite doctrinal views) were INSPIRED BY GOD when they, via committee, poured through all of the different documents to decide upon which ones to use and how to translate it into Greek or English? <<<

So, in a nutshell, I was asking whether you believe that men like Erasmus, Lancelot Andrewes (and the other translators of the KJV) were "inspired by God" for their various works. Of course, this is just one question of the ten that I would like some answers for to better understand where you (and others) are coming from.

I also stated: "I would very much hope to see answers to these questions in the person's own words -- and not something that amounts to information that is copied and pasted from a website or book. I would also not like to see an answer to these questions that amount to questioning the validity of other versions. Thanks."


_________________
Christopher

 2011/4/3 13:48Profile









 Re: For some Christians, King James is the only Bible


Well, I've known and probably most of us do know of some outstanding Greek/Hebrew Scholars that were/are no where near saved.

Is there a modern version, where all the translators were saved, filled with His Spirit and held no doctrinal biases, I wonder?

 2011/4/3 15:07









 Re:

I will have to check that book out about Erasmus. I did like his own personal quotes. Whether Erasmus was inspired or not is not as important as the fact that God honors His promises in the Word that I read.

6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. 7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever. Psalms 12:6-7

That is what is important, Chris.

That God has preserved His Word to us, despite men. That He is all powerful and wise enough to do it in a form we can read today.

You start from Psalm 12. You start from God's point of view, believing that it exist for you, today, then you proceed to find the preserved Word, sifting through all the ones that say, "choose me, choose me".

The true Word of God WILL stand up!

 2011/4/3 15:34
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4779


 Re:

Hi Jesus-is-God,

This is one of the reasons that I asked those specific questions.

The first thesis introduced in this discussion is that the KJV is the "perfect and preserved" version of the Word of God down to the last "jot and tittle."

Whether or not other versions are perfect, also perfect, more accurate or faithful versions is simply a secondary discussion.

So, it would be helpful to stick with examining the primary, major claim before we deviate into some secondary discussion about other versions.


_________________
Christopher

 2011/4/3 15:53Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4779


 Re:

Hi anonymous777,

Quote:

I will have to check that book out about Erasmus. I did like his own personal quotes. Whether Erasmus was inspired or not is not as important as the fact that God honors His promises in the Word that I read.



That is actually three books. He has quite a few more that you can also sort through (translated into English), but this would be a good start. It would also help you verify whether or not the quotes that are attributed to him are accurate, or are accurate reflections about what he believed regarding the various Roman heresies. I suspect that you will discover that he embraced many of those heresies and even propagated them. You will also find the various conflicts that he had with men like Martin Luther in regard to Catholic teachings.

Quote:

6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. 7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever. Psalms 12:6-7

That is what is important, Chris.

That God has preserved His Word to us, despite men. That He is all powerful and wise enough to do it in a form we can read today.

You start from Psalm 12. You start from God's point of view, believing that it exist for you, today, then you proceed to find the preserved Word, sifting through all the ones that say, "choose me, choose me".



No one has ever said that God did not preserve His Word.

However, your premise isn't just that God preserved His Word. Your premise is that God preserved it -- perfectly down to the last jot and tittle -- and it is called the King James Version.

The reason for my specific questions is so that we can examine and test the primary claim about the KJV.


_________________
Christopher

 2011/4/3 16:00Profile









 Re:

Hey Chris,

Correct me if I am wrong.

Is your premise that God only preserved His words in the original manuscripts? I mean, the copies of them since there are no true 1st penned originals. But anyway, the Hebrew/Greek manuscripts, only"?

 2011/4/3 16:06
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4779


 Re:

Quote:

Is your premise that God only preserved His words in the original manuscripts? I mean, the copies of them since there are no true 1st penned originals. But anyway, the Hebrew/Greek manuscripts, only"?



No.


_________________
Christopher

 2011/4/3 16:16Profile
White_Stone
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 1196
North Central Florida

 Re:

After reading the Preface to the 1611 KJV I have renewed confidence in the translation and the men who did the work.

It is a lengthy read, for that reason I posted below the parts that were my personal favorites.

It is glaringly obvious how the art of written expression has deteriorated in these 400 years.

kindly,
white stone

http://www.piney.com/DocKJVPref1611.html

excerpts from the Preface to the 1611 KJV:

Quote:
it hath pleased God in his divine providence, here and there to scatter word and sentences of that difficulty and doubtfulness, not in doctrinal points that concern salvation, (for in such it hath been vouched that the Scriptures are plain) but in matters of less moment, that fearfulness would better beseem us than confidence, and if we will resolve upon modesty with S. Augustine, (though not in this same case altogether, yet upon the same ground) Melius est debitare de occultis, quam litigare de incertis, [S. Aug li. S. de Genes. ad liter. cap. 5.] "it is better to make doubt of those things which are secret, than to strive about those things that are uncertain." There be many words in the Scriptures, which be never found there but once, (having neither brother or neighbor, as the Hebrews speak) so that we cannot be holpen by conference of places. Again, there be many rare names of certain birds, beasts and precious stones, etc.
------
Many other things we might give thee warning of (gentle Reader) if we had not exceeded the measure of a Preface already. It remaineth, that we commend thee to God, and to the Spirit of his grace, which is able to build further than we can ask or think. He removeth the scales from our eyes, the vail from our hearts, opening our wits that we may understand his word, enlarging our hearts, yea correcting our affections, that we may love it to the end. Ye are brought unto fountains of living water which ye digged not; do not cast earth into them with the Philistines, neither prefer broken pits before them with the wicked Jews. [Gen 26:15. Jer 2:13.]
------
Others have laboured, and you may enter into their labours; O receive not so great things in vain, O despise not so great salvation! Be not like swine to tread under foot so precious things, neither yet like dogs to tear and abuse holy things. Say not to our Saviour with the Gergesites, Depart out of our coast [Matt 8:34]; neither yet with Esau sell your birthright for a mess of pottage [Heb 12:16]. If light be come into the world, love not darkness more than light; if food, if clothing be offered, go not naked, starve not yourselves.
------
Remember the advice of Nazianzene, "It is a grievous thing" (or dangerous) "to neglect a great fair, and to seek to make markets afterwards:" also the encouragement of S. Chrysostom, "It is altogether impossible, that he that is sober" (and watchful) "should at any time be neglected:" [S. Chrysost. in epist. ad Rom. cap. 14. oral. 26.] Lastly, the admonition and menacing of S. Augustine, "They that despise God's will inviting them, shall feel God's will taking vengeance of them." [S. August. ad artic. sibi falso object. Artic. 16.] It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God; [Heb 10:31] but a blessed thing it is, and will bring us to everlasting blessedness in the end, when God speaketh unto us, to hearken; when he setteth his word before us, to read it; when he stretcheth out his hand and calleth, to answer, Here am I, here we are to do thy will, O God. The Lord work a care and conscience in us to know him and serve him, that we may be acknowledged of him at the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, to whom with the holy Ghost, be all praise and thanksgiving.


_________________
Janice

 2011/4/3 16:31Profile









 Re: King James Debate

Let's see here. Over 3000 believers are.in shipping containers in Erotrea. Several thousand Christians in death camps in N Korea. Saints imprisoned in China. Our spiritual family martyred in India. And we in America are debating the King James. What is wrpng with this picture???

 2011/4/3 20:05









 Re:

Quote:
That is actually three books. He has quite a few more that you can also sort through (translated into English), but this would be a good start. It would also help you verify whether or not the quotes that are attributed to him are accurate, or are accurate reflections about what he believed regarding the various Roman heresies. I suspect that you will discover that he embraced many of those heresies and even propagated them. You will also find the various conflicts that he had with men like Martin Luther in regard to Catholic teachings.



I wonder if when I have read this 3-volume set and I come back to you and tell you that some of those quotes were right on, if you would accept it? Something tells me NO. You will then want to know if I am qualified to know what I have just read and ask me to produce a Phd. in Latin Literature. This is the attitude you have displayed. You reject anything anyone says, if they have not read the source.

Chris, there are people that have read those works and many others by and about Erasmus, and we have provided bibliography and sourcing and you disdain what they say by your very remarks.

So, why would you accept anything I have to say? And indeed, you don't accept anything that anyone has to say on this subject. You have clearly displayed a closed mind on the issue, despite your protestations to the contrary.

You are in effect saying to us, that you "have read everything on the subject and nothing that we are producing is true. And if you don't believe it, then read everything on the subject like I have and you will know. And if you read anything to the contrary of what I am telling you, then it is because you don't understand what you are reading."

I am sure I will read those works, and I will check out all the quotations, but I won't be reporting back to you only to hear, that what I read is "SUBJECT TO INTERPRETATION" or "YOU ARE NOT QUALIFIED TO UNDERSTAND".

Gotta run, martyr is watching how much time we spend on this.

Does this person sound familiar?
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38255&forum=34&0

Have a good night.

777


 2011/4/3 21:42





©2002-2024 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Revival to this Generation.
Privacy Policy