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 Re: Happy Birthday Tribute to the Lord for the KJV

A proclamation for all with deepest gratefulness to God.

Psa 12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.

Psa 12:7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

Psa 12:8 The wicked walk on every side, when the vilest men are exalted.

I believe God's Words in the KJV are pure words, tried seven times. I believe the Lord has preserved His Word to us from generation to generation and we have it in the form of the KJV.

I believe God's promise, that He preserved His Word and I have no doubts at all about each jot and tittle that I read. I have complete confidence in His preserved Word.

If you don't have a Bible that you can say this about, you need to get with God and find that Bible, because He said, He would preserve His Word.

If you have a Bible that you can say that about, then God bless you. You need to have a Bible that you can believe without hesitation that it is the Lord's complete and preserved Word, down through the generations, to you.

What a mighty God we serve. Is anything too small for God?

I believe our Mighty God could even influence men through the inspiraton of the Holy Spirit to use the chapters and verses that He wanted. Why not? Is anything too hard for our God. It's all about faith brothers and about "seeing" and about being childlike, not about intellectualism and man's wisdom. Do you have this faith in the God of the Bible that you read and base your very existence now and eternally, on?

How could, God, even influence chapters and verses? I don't know, that's His business. He has a lot of gold nuggets like this in His Word where He delights in us finding them out. It speaks of His might and to us personally, that nothing happens to you, unless the Lord allows it. Look, at how He regards His Word even above His name. He watched over His Word and protected it through the centuries. Men have tried to tamper with it, but He would not allow it.

I do know that Isaiah has 66 chapters in it which may be the Lord's built in stamp on the canon of 66 books. Far-fetched? Here is something that you may find interesting and even be blessed by. The perfection of God's Word.

Isaiah has 66 chapters and the entire Bible has 66 books. The 66 chapters of Isaiah is said to be a miniature bible. And Looking at chapter 40 verse 3 we can associate that to book 40 (Matthew) chapter 3 where John the Baptist is identified as the voice in the wilderness spoken about in Isaiah 40:3. Still far fetched? Keep reading.

God is the divine engineer and could it be that He even inspired the men that divided up the Bible into chapters and verses? Of course!! He is in control of everything, especially when it comes to His Word. You should take comfort in the fact that even the smallest parts of our lives are very important to Him.

Look at Genesis 14 (note the number 14) and the 14th Epistle (Hebrews). The author writes in details on Melchizedek mentioned only twice in the OT.

Or, the Psalm 43 prayer is answered in Book 43, the Gospel of John. "Send thy light and thy truth"; "My Father hath sent me", "I am the Light of the world", "I am the Way the truth and the life".

Wow!! Is it possible, that the Lord Jehovah even supervised the ordering of the books? This must be a coincindence, eh?

Back to Isaiah:
With its sixty-six chapters forming a one-to-one correspondence with the sixty-six books of the Bible, Isaiah presents a complete image of the Bible within the Bible. This idea is not new. Many previous authors have acknowledged the relation between Isaiah and the Bible. Consider these words from the Introduction to Isaiah found in Thomas Nelson’s New King James Version:

Isaiah is like a miniature Bible. The first thirty-nine chapters (like the thirty-nine books of the Old Testament) are filled with judgment upon immoral idolatrous men. Judah has sinned; the surrounding nations have sinned; the whole earth has sinned. Judgment must come, for God cannot allow such blatant sin to go unpunished forever. But the final twenty-seven chapters (like the twenty-seven books of the New Testament) declare a message of hope. The Messiah is coming as a Savior and a Sovereign to bear a cross and to wear a crown.

The similarities and parallels between Isaiah’s 66th chapter and the 66th book of the Bible have been well noted amongst scholars, but it still amazes me every time I think about it.

It is very appropriate for the last Chapter of the book of Isaiah to be tied thematically with the last book in the Bible, but what makes these connections so stunning is that reading Isaiah 66 is like reading a condensed version of Revelation. Look at these amazing similarities.

Isa. 66:1 Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?
Rev. 4:2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and [one] sat on the throne.



Isa. 66:3-4 He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations. I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.
Rev. 18: 4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
Rev.18: 7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she says in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow….9) And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning.



Isa. 66:6 A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the LORD that rendereth recompense to his enemies.
Rev. 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in His temple the ark of His testament: andthere were lightning’s, and voices, and thundering, and an earthquake, and great hail.
Rev 16:1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.


Isa. 66:7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.
Rev. 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered….. 5) And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and [to] His throne.



Isa. 66:12 For thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream: then shall ye suck, ye shall be borne upon her sides, and be dandled upon her knees.
Rev.21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honor into it.
Rev. 22:1 And he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.



Isa. 66:15 For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire….16) For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.
Rev.9:9 And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings [was] as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle….18)By thesethree was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.



Isa. 66:18 For I know their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory.
Rev. 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,



Isa. 66:19 And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, to Tubal, and Javan, to the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles.
Rev.15:1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvelous, seven angels having the seven last plagues;for in them is filled up the wrath of God.



Isa. 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
Rev. 21:And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.



Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
Rev 15:4 Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest.



Isa. 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
Rev. 19:20-21 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophetthat wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. And the remnant were slain with the sword of Him that sat upon the horse, which [sword] proceeded out of his mouth (Jesus Christ): and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.


Did this bless you? It did me. Do you think we have an amazing God? Yes, He is amazing. He is Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God is He.

Ah Lord God, thou hast made the heavens and the earth by thy great power. Nothing is too difficult for thee, nothing is too difficult for thee, Ah, great and mighty God, great in power and mighty in deed, nothing, nothing, absolutely nothing, nothing is too difficult for thee.

HAPPY 400th BIRTHDAY to the AUTHORIZED KING JAMES BIBLE

and of course..... it is the Spirit that gives life, but His Words are spirit and they are life.

Alive-to-God,

Thanks for that sermon by Washer. Sophistry is the word I keyed in on.

Blessings to all,
777

 2011/3/30 20:39
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Variants Image

Ok, here is something I just put together really quick. If you go to: http://www.iamadisciple.com/articles/papers/Bible-Variants.jpg you will see what a critical edition of the Greek New Testament looks like. If you've never seen this before, let me explain to you what is going on (as it is a little overwhelming at first). I've tried to color code things to help.

In the top part of the graphic, you have the Greek text that the United Bible Society has come to consensus on. In the bottom part, you have the foot notes indicating the variants of reading. In footnote 3, you see one of the variants for one phrase under dispute. I've highlighted this in yellow.

Reading the Variants:
---------------------

Variant 1 -

The {B} symbol you see at first is the "grade" the scholars have given the variant, and the level of disagreement that exists between them. An "A" rating would indicate almost complete consensus, with "B" being strong support, and "C" being sharp disagreement.

Following this, you have one of the alternative Greek variants for verse 11. Immediately after that, you will see a Hebrew Symbol, Greek Letters, and a series of numbers. These represents the various manuscripts that have this particular variant in them. Generally speaking, letters represents the older texts, usually of the Alexandrian texts. I have drawn a black line on top of these Alexandrian texts. Numbers represent the individual manuscripts coming from the Majority texts that support this variant. I have drawn a black line underneath these Majority texts.

In the first variant in yellow, you will notice that this particular reading is supported by a variety of Alexandrian and Majority texts. It is also supported in other fragmented works.

Variant 2 - Highlighted in blue is another reading of the debated Greek phrase. Again, this alternative reading has support in some Alexandrian texts, but it also has support in the Majority texts. And this variant, supported by both text families, but agreeing with one another, disagree with the reading of Variant 1. Each text family has considerable agreement and disagreement with each other in these first two variants.

Variant 3 - Highlighted in green is another less attested reading of the debated Greek phrase, within the Alexandrian family. And within the Alexandrian family, there is at least one document where this third rendering actually is missing an entire word.


Which one is best? Well, because of tools like this, the scholars have empowered you to sort through the manuscripts and decide for yourself. In other words, you don't have to take the words of the "experts" and "scholars" for yourself. They are letting you make your own decision as to which rendering is best, and from there, you can establish your own translation. You can agree or disagree with them.

So, for those of you have never seen this sort of thing before with your own eyes, it is my hope that by exposing you to the actual Greek texts, that you can once and for all do away with silly arguments that amount to conspiracy theories. Because in the privacy of your own study, without even reading a word of Westcott and Hort, and knowing nothing of Erasmus, you can decide for yourself what is the best variant to use on any given verse, and translate the New Testament entirely for yourself, without consulting anybody else whatsoever.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2011/3/30 21:13Profile









 Re: Variants Image

Thanks for doing all of that, Jimmy! This may take some time, so be patient with me.

777

 2011/3/30 21:20









 Re: Do New Versions have Greek Expository Dictionaries like Vine's.

I have a question:

Do Modern Bible versions have Greek Expository Dictionaries for reference or Hebrew Lexicons.

For example. A Vine's for NASB or NIV or NKJV?

Is there a Strong's concordance equivalent? Hebrew Lexicon equivalent?

 2011/3/30 22:00
rusaved1
Member



Joined: 2011/3/10
Posts: 40
Virginia

 Re:

Hey I'm back now.

KingJimmy,

Quote:
While this is "a" factor in translation, it is not the only factor. After all, just because a there a thousand copies of a mistake doesn't make the mistake correct. One has to consider things like the immediate grammatical context (as in the essay I wrote, when deciding which variant was best). Is something better grammatically, i.e. tense, gender, plurality? Could the eye of the scribe slipped as he was copying, resulting in him copying a neighboring word twice? In theologically loaded passages, or passages that quote other verses of the Bible, does the variant seem to make something "more acceptable" and "softer?" Should a longer reading be preferred over a shorter reading?



Yes, as a matter of fact, some of these were my presuppositions that I didn't really elaborate on.


Quote:
Quote: Yes, I wholeheartedly believe that God's pure and holy word is in the KJV, with no mistakes. And if I might ask, what is the basis of this belief?



The basis of this belief is in the Scriptures. Ask yourself this question: did the apostles struggle with a belief that there were errors in the Bible they carried in their hands as they preached the gospel with the Lord Jesus Christ? God has clearly expounded in his Word time and again that "heaven and earth shall pass away but my WORDS shall not pass away." If his words (not message or ideas or meaning, but WORDS) have not passed away, and if you believe God meant what he said, where are his words today? Has God preserved his words in totality, without error (ie. perfection) today or not? If not, how do you back that up with Scripture? I am more than happy to show you the numerous references throughout the Scriptures that support my position, but I find none to support yours. Step back from the entire "textual criticism" aspect of things and ask yourself, do you believe God and his promise? If so, where is that perfect copy today? And if you do not believe him, why do you not? Why do you not believe that God can or would preserve His word in perfection for us all today? Why is that such an impossibility? Abraham asked the Lord thousands of years ago, Is anything too hard for the Lord? Do you believe this is something that is too hard for God to do? Especially when he promised he WOULD do such? I encourage you to meditate on this.....

 2011/3/30 22:15Profile
rusaved1
Member



Joined: 2011/3/10
Posts: 40
Virginia

 Re:

777,
Great post! Thanks so much for the effort you put into it. It is quite a blessing, indeed. Very God-glorifying!

 2011/3/30 22:26Profile
TrueWitness
Member



Joined: 2006/8/10
Posts: 661


 Re: Gail Riplinger

Gail Riplinger, author of New Age Bible Versions, and the more recent Hazardous Materials is not a Hebrew or Greek scholar. She can't even read Greek or Hebrew. Her degrees, her teaching, and her writing, are all in one area: interior design. Mrs. Riplinger did indeed teach at Kent State, but she did so in the Home Economics department, teaching classes in interior design. Here is what Wikipedia says about her:
In 1993, Riplinger wrote a comparison of modern Bible translations to the King James Version. She also wrote "The Language of the King James Bible", "Which Bible is God's Word" and "Hazardous Materials: Greek and Hebrew Study Dangers".

Within her books, Riplinger has misquoted many different men in order to support her assertions, often using ellipses to hide the words that expose her misrepresentation.[2] S. E. Schnaiter reviewed her book, New Age Bible Versions, in a published journal article. He stated, "Riplinger appears to be another of those who rush to [the KJV's] defense, alarmed by the proliferation of its modern rivals, armed with nothing more than the blunderbuss of ad hominem apologetic, when what is needed is the keenness of incisive evaluation." [3] He later stated, "For whatever rationale on Riplinger’s part, she has produced not an exposé but rather a diatribe, often quite vitriolic, based on dogmatic, predispositional, and, more often than not, blatantly fallacious propaganda techniques rather than real evidence, carefully weighed and judiciously presented."[4] She repeatedly misquotes, misrepresents, and inaccurately cites many people, including, Arthur Westcott, Brook Foss Westcott, Fenton John Anthony Hort, Kenneth Taylor, Wilbur Pickering, Norman Geisler, and many others.[5][6]

James White has done a thorough critique of her and her work on his website:
http://vintage.aomin.org/NABVR.html

 2011/3/30 22:46Profile
rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1330


 Re:

Quote:
The basis of this belief is in the Scriptures. Ask yourself this question: did the apostles struggle with a belief that there were errors in the Bible they carried in their hands as they preached the gospel with the Lord Jesus Christ? God has clearly expounded in his Word time and again that "heaven and earth shall pass away but my WORDS shall not pass away." If his words (not message or ideas or meaning, but WORDS) have not passed away, and if you believe God meant what he said, where are his words today? Has God preserved his words in totality, without error (ie. perfection) today or not? If not, how do you back that up with Scripture? I am more than happy to show you the numerous references throughout the Scriptures that support my position, but I find none to support yours. Step back from the entire "textual criticism" aspect of things and ask yourself, do you believe God and his promise? If so, where is that perfect copy today? And if you do not believe him, why do you not? Why do you not believe that God can or would preserve His word in perfection for us all today? Why is that such an impossibility? Abraham asked the Lord thousands of years ago, Is anything too hard for the Lord? Do you believe this is something that is too hard for God to do? Especially when he promised he WOULD do such? I encourage you to meditate on this.....



Praise God brother!

This is the very reason I can not and will not accept the modern versions over the KJV because no human being on earth being an expert or a novice can ever convince me that God almighty would allow us to have an incorrect bible for almost 300 years before He could find someone smart enough to get us the right one's.

Blessings to you brother and the diligence of 777.

 2011/3/30 22:51Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4779


 Re:

Hi rbanks...

Quote:

This is the very reason I can not and will not accept the modern versions over the KJV because no human being on earth being an expert or a novice can ever convince me that God almighty would allow us to have an incorrect bible for almost 300 years before He could find someone smart enough to get us the right one's.



What about the ~1600 years from the time of Christ until the King James Version? If you don't think that God would allow 300 years go by without a "perfect" translation, then what about all of those years when the sources that the King James Version relied upon weren't unified (or in total agreement)?

I am just amazed that many people will embrace the work of the translators of the KJV (well, minus the Apocrypha that it originally contained and after all of the revisions between 1611 and 1769)...but will not believe what the translators themselves wrote in their preface. They stated that, although an honest attempt, it wasn't a "perfect" work.


_________________
Christopher

 2011/3/30 22:58Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4779


 Re:

Hi TrueWitness,

I don't know whether all of the allegations written about Gail Riplinger are true. Oddly enough, I first read them in King James-only websites.

But, like the allegations raised by Gail Riplinger herself regarding Westcott, Hort and the translators of the NASB and NIV, I think that it is best to contact her and ask if anyone feels the need.

Now, she may not respond to questions about those allegations. She did write a response to some allegations posed by another KJV-only website. Her response, however, didn't include any answer to the specific allegations.

However, I still think that it is best to not believe any of those things until AFTER she has an opportunity to answer them anyway...or (in regard to the nature of her work) until we have actually read her own firsthand works and the validity of those things for ourselves.


_________________
Christopher

 2011/3/30 23:07Profile





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