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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Hasn't anybody noticed?

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 Re: Why True Protestants REJECT the pope!

Along with Richard Bennett at, Ian Paisley is another very courageous brother. They are both very encouraging to me.

 2011/4/14 23:53


Yes, those are two very good websites.

When I first moved here to this community, I saw on our bulletin board a Bible Study in the next building in the complex, so I attended.
Only the teacher wasn't Catholic and me, though I came from a Catholic family - but when I got saved, the Word of GOD came alive and I saw that their praying to saints & Mary, confession to priests, the mass, the wafer & wine being transformed into His Actual Body & blood and everything else that goes beyond what is written is wrong ... so I was surprised to find these ladies all meeting together at first - until they began to complain about the things that they were seeing that are wrong as well.
Just reading His Word alone is opening eyes without either of the two of us having to come against their beliefs outright and it proved even the more to me that His Word doesn't go out void and despite that these ladies have been RCC all of their lives - His Word is alive and well, for those who desire Him and Him alone - He makes it real and breaks the mystique of any religious spirit that has like a drugging affect on folks. Have felt it - been there - done that. Thank GOD He sets the prisoners free, opens eyes and gives us a sound & sober mind so that we can see through the counterfeit experiences and those things that contradict The Word of GOD. He is The Word of GOD - Alleluia!

 2011/4/15 1:07

 Re: Hasn't anybody noticed?

Dear andie,

Thank you for coming back to share your heart. I value the opportunity to comment again.

I'm not sure which version of the Bible you are using, but I know you read. I have a 1994 New Jerusalem Study Bible where I would like to look for the references to the seven sacraments you mention, if you could show me where they are as you come to them in your catechism classes? I hope you will be open to further discussion. Please would you help me to follow in this?

I know you've done a lot of reading already, and a777 has asked you to more. Really, I just want to encourage you to keep trying to understand what the Reformation was about in regard to giving the scriptures more authority than men who have departed to human tradition.

I hear what you say about apostolic succession, but that falls down when you realise the disciples did not become EFFECTIVE 'apostles' until their day of Pentecost. Everyone needs their own 'day of pentecost', and to receive their own 'sending' by the Lord Himself. Thus, there have been many apostles outside the Catholic church. (Rom 16:7. I see in my NJSB that the reference to other apostles has been removed in favour of a footnote which hides Paul's meaning.)

Anglicans also believe in 'apostolic succession', but really this has become a form of 'church governance' ('apostolate = liturgical function', according to footnote in NJSB). The Bible doesn't mention 'apostolate', or 'liturgical function', but does go into detail as to the qualities of those who THE CONGREGATION may recognise as fit to take on the roles elders and deacons to serve them. First of all, these men must be submitted to God.

The Lord does not invite you to submit to anyone but Himself, because this is where true liberty is found. While there is a biblical requirement for accountability within 'the Church', today, this regularly crosses denominational boundaries, because it is quite difficult to find 'a man of God' in certain churches.

Going back to personal pentecost, the work of the Holy Spirit which Jesus promises in John 14 - 17, is crucial to understanding the importance of the Reformation in respect of biblical doctrine. (John 16:13 - 15)

The term 'pentecost' was originally attached to a harvest thanksgiving, and we can see from Acts 2 how God had foreshadowed His intention to pour out the Holy Spirit on that day, (a Pentecost in a Jubilee year), in the establishment of the seasons for crops, and His command always to bring Him the firstfruits.

The reference within 'pente' to five (fifty days after the Resurrection) is also interesting. The Holy Spirit is called 'the Spirit of grace', and the number five has become associated with 'grace', (or unmerited blessing). You can trace this all through the Bible, and its hinting at spiritual gifts which would come by the Holy Spirit, to grace believers during and after their personal pentecost.

[EDIT: I came across this quote, which supports the forgoing statement.

'Christ was at once Priest, Altar, and Sacrifice. Three aspects of His work were conveyed by these three types. In the early chapters of Leviticus five offerings are prescribed. They were all typical of the one offering on the Cross. They presented five different aspects of the work of Christ. The thing figured was one and the same. This principle meets us at every turn in reading the Old Testament types. Need we be surprised, then, to see three aspects of the Second Advent set before us in the New Testament?'

From: end EDIT]

Victory over 'the sin' (see literal translations) is expected, and best explained in Paul's thesis in Romans 5 - 8. No-one can have victory over sin without the gift of the Holy Spirit indwelling their inner life, after first having been cleansed by the spiritual application of Christ's blood. Jesus Christ died to bring freedom from 'the sin', that He might restore in man the image of God.

He was in full control of His mission, although because He came in the 'likeness' of 'sinful flesh', He lacked physical strength near the end. Establishing the ETERNAL nature of Christ's victory for mankind, Paul said, 'this thing was not done in a corner' (Acts 26:26); 'He triumphed over principalities and powers openly' (Col 2:15) - giving us to believe that we too can practise victory over sin.

It is true this is a battle, but it is fought from the ground of victory. Paul expresses this in Ephesians 6:10 - 20.

 2011/4/15 6:59



I have read all the articles A777 posted. I don't really like that kind of writing. He mingles criticizing men personally with sarcasm and does not offer a clear argument against catholic doctrine. I haven't yet read the other things posted. As I said I am not going to force my beliefs onto people, they can choose for themselves whether to explore further. I have just suggested those two men because they understand the issues Protestants have with Catholic doctrine being both converts. And they are well respected within the Catholic community for teaching correct doctrine.

 2011/4/15 13:23



I do see the sarcasm, too. But it is being used just like Paul used it in Galatians. Having come out of the RCC and Jesuit training, I think those articles are very effective and DO indeed show Catholic doctrine quite well in contrast with Bible doctrine. The titles are a bit strong, but the content does back them up.

Of course my opinion is going to differ with yours just because of what I believe and where I am. I came out of the RCC and you are going into it. Karl Keating, Scott Hahn, Patrick Madrid and others are very well respected WITHIN the Catholic Community. You are absolutely right, about that. And, I will even admit that the Catholic apologists have been and are very effective. They are doing a great service for the Vatican. Many are coming "home to ROME" because of their work. That is not disputed in the least. What I would dispute, is on what basis they are coming Home to Rome.

From here on, I am sure we will just pray for each other's eyes to be opened. As far as "forcing" beliefs on one another, the only way I know how that is done, is by the edge of a real sword. So, I don't think we should confuse conversation and debate with FORCE. You have to violate someone's will to force something on them and I have no desire to violate anyone's will.


 2011/4/15 13:40

Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 1196
North Central Florida

 further reading for you, andie


By T. W. Medhurst
Glasgow, Scotland

I appreciate your approach to this subject, in that you are reading. Hope you appreciate this piece.

white stone


 2011/4/15 13:56Profile


Ian Paisley is another very courageous brother.

amen! i love Ian, it was some of his early revival sermons that i listened to at first, when this Jew, first apprehended Jesus Messiah, i did not know the diffrences between catholicism and Protestantism, i just thought it was two seperate Gentile "churches". i knew the history of rome and what this institution did to the tribe of my flesh, the Jews, with their inquisitions and forced conversions and their murders.

but then in 2002, i began to read of rome's "theology", mary idolatry, popery and other such non canonical superstitions, the mass, transubstation, and was horrified

anyway, here's a great Paisley sermon on revival

"Five Steps to Genuine Revival"

in Jesus' love, neil

 2011/4/15 15:47

 Re: A777

To to clarify I am not going to comment directly on all the articles etc you have posted, or the sacraments question atg. It would simply take too long, and the men I recommended do it more justice. I will of course read and listen to what you have all posted. And it is your choice if you are interested in reading what I have suggested.

David Currie - Born fundamentalist born again catholic

Scott + Kimberly Hahn - Home sweet Rome

What I meant by not forcing my beliefs on anyone, is I'm not going to start posting specific Catholic doctrine, or comment on anti catholic comments others make on here.

God bless you all

 2011/4/15 16:59


as i testified, i'm a Jew who follows Jesus, until 2002, i never really knew the theological differences between roman catholicism and what is termed "protestantism", i just assumed they were two loosely similar forms of "Gentile Church's", and when i had my bell rung by God the Holy Ghost and Jesus was revealed to me and in me, i wasnt "raised up" in an anti catholic Church.

i just started reading and listening, and what i heard, absolutely horrified me. i won't go over the whole list, but top of the list is this;

how can the pope even deign to allow anybody to term him as "Our Holy Father"?....or the "Vicar of Christ"? (little christ)

"Our Holy Father"? i mean, doesnt this man FEAR GOD?

i mean personally, if that was me, i'd be shaking in my boots, quaking with witless FEAR, expecting a bolt from Heaven that cleves me in two for such blasphemy.....

and what really gives me intense spiritual indigestion, is the "cruciix", to make a physical representation, AN IDOL, of Jesus, and glue Him atop a Cross?

thats madness!! AN IDOL? of Jesus?

or making statues of Mary and praying to her?

throughout both Old and New Testaments, isnt God very clear about the sin of idolatry?...

and i know some of these backslidden mainline denominations are ordaining homosexual ministers, they're lukewarm, dying and will pay for this foolishness, but the catholic church has institutionalized a protected haven for predatory homosexual child molesting "priests" to go roost and practice their foul wickedness, even to the point the catholic church as had to pay out BILLIONS, to silence these innocent victims of rome?....even to the point of cover up, shuffling these hellbound monsters from parish to parish?

Did not the Lord Jesus Christ speak of a millstone around the necks of these who stumble the little ones, as they get dropped into the deepest part of the ocean?

thats what i just CANT understand, why anyone would want fellowship with such an evil institution?

me? i would run away from such as fast as i could, right into the Arms of Jesus.

i pray for you beloved, and i dont mean that in any condenscending way at all. i mean that in Jesus' love, neil

 2011/4/15 17:48

Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710

 Re: Andie


If you will stay in Paul's epistles, all organized religion will slowly fall away. Just read the first chapters of Gal, Eph, Col and Phill you will see what I am speaking about.
I stayed in Eph 1 for 6 mos and still don't have what God has prepared for me, which is way beyond what I can see or think, It must come by revelation of the Holy Spirit, but I do have a fuller picture of what Paul was appointed by Jesus to give to us to fulfill the Word of God. Which is Christ in you the hope of Glory, Col 1: 27 Stay with Pauls final Gospel which he calls, "my gospel". It will free you from organized religion. Don't be afraid of where God places you, you may be the only life giving witness for Christ in the place where God puts you.

In Christ: Phillip


 2011/4/15 19:05Profile

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