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Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

From "The Rapture"

http://www.digisys.net/users/ddalton/the_rapture.htm

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2011/2/9 20:36Profile
staff
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Joined: 2007/2/8
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 Re:

Hi Alive to God,
I have since looked up a couple of commentaries on the subject and one says its Christ and the other the Anti Christ.One uses the verses before hand to argue for the prince to come as the Anti Christ.
I think if it were Christ it would not have highlighted the midst of the week and also it would be 69 1/2 weeks prophetically rather than 69 when he is cut off.This would involve believing that their isnt a prophetic 7yr future but only the great tribulation which last 3.5 years.
The Noah/lot examples are difficult for the pretrib view point.If the judgement comes straigth away(no gap) after the rapture then rapture cant happen at any time.Because the antichrist could not make a covenant unless the temple is rebuilt,so for instance it could not happen right now.
I think you can not get the full picture(which I dont claim to have) without looking at types and you certainly cannot understand 3.5 year period without answering why 3.5 years or 42 months.
I should ask the same question from the pretrib view point!
My question at the beginning happened because I couldnt find an answer any other way and I wanted to give others a chance to voice their opinions.Staff

 2011/2/9 20:58Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
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 Re:

The temple could be rebuilt in the first three and a half years. Will God allow animal sacrifice, even if the temple is rebuilt?

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2011/2/9 21:16Profile
elected
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Joined: 2004/11/21
Posts: 362
Tulsa OK

 Re:

Hi Christinyou,

Quote:
"Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed- in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality." John 14:3



The scripture you quoted actually proves that the rapture will happen at the end of the tribulation. The LAST trump in the apocalypse is after the tribulation and not before it.

In Rev. 7 John saw a great multitude from every nation who no one could number. One of the elders in heaven told John that, "these are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. Who have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." It's very clear to me that these are christians who have believed in the Lord Jesus Christ and suffered persecution for not denying their Lord. Those believers who go thru trib, they will believe in the blood of the Lamb that was shed on the cross for them and they are the once also who will take part in the Marriage Supper of the Lamb in Revelation 19, together with all the saints who have believed the Lord Jesus Christ.

The letters to the 7 churches in Revelation were addressed to the local churches in Asia but these warning messages also apply to the Church throughout history till Rapture and each church representing a distinct period. For example the letter to the Laodicea represents the church of the last days and this is the church that will go thru tribulation. If you notice in the letter to the philadelphians the Lord promises them to keep from the HOUR OF TRIAL which will come upon all who dwell on the earth. The hour or trial is nothing but the Tribulation Period that the church of Laodicea representing the modern lukewarm church of today has to go thru.

It is undeniable that the church of Laodicea presents a vivid picture of the church period we live in and the Lord counseled the believers to , "buy gold refined in fire."
They needed genuine faith that when tested in the fire will result in praise and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

The Laodician Church of today will go thru the tribulation and the faith of many will be tested in the fire of persecution. It is clear from Rev.7 that the saints will go thru great trials during the 7 years trib and not only the believing Jews.



- Edited


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Redi

 2011/2/10 1:49Profile
Christinyou
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 Re:

The safest view is that Paul’s use of the phrase last trumpet in 1 Cor. 15:52 is simply to identify the trumpet call that accompanies the Rapture as the last one the Church will hear on Earth. This is the only place this trumpted is used in scripture.

After the tribulation there are seven trumpets by angels, which conjecture says the seventh angel blowing the seventh trumpet is the last trumpet for judgement.

Not the last trump the Church will hear when Christ comes for His Bride of which no Husband will harm and send her into the great tribulation.

The Parable of the 10 virgins. Christ is already married to His Bride the Church. The virgins are waiting of the Groom to come and take the Bride to His Father's House.

Matthew 25:1-10 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. And five of them were wise, and five were foolish. They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

What door is shut? No one can get in unless they have the wedding clothes and not after the door is shut, then the wedding supper of the Lamb.

The last trump crowd does not allow for any conjecture on the time of the rapture except being post trubulation.

"loud cry" or shout? The same?

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2011/2/10 3:49Profile
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 Re:

Hi Christinyou,
Regarding:
The temple could be rebuilt in the first three and a half years. Will God allow animal sacrifice, even if the temple is rebuilt?
It could be built in the 3.5 year period but would it pass all planning law,peace agreement procedures,archeology reports and digs on such an historic site and then the actual construction in 3.5 years from right now if we are raptured.Look at the twin tower site,it been years even getting to this stage.I think it wouldnt make it.It would be interesting to see how long the last archeology digs took.
I think God will allow sin to have its course.Thanks Staff

 2011/2/10 14:57Profile
davidc
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Joined: 2010/8/15
Posts: 272
France

 Re:

Hi there Elected. You say:

"In Rev. 7 John saw a great multitude from every nation who no one could number. One of the elders in heaven told John that, "these are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. Who have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." It's very clear to me that these are christians who have believed in the Lord Jesus Christ and suffered persecution for not denying their Lord."

You can see from the description of the elders here and in chapter 4, that they were 24 heavenly priests and kings, which begin their apearance at the beginning of chapter 4, the beginning of the strictly prophetic part of the book. There is strong evidence from this that they represent the now risen, heavenly church, on thrones and surrounding the throne of God.

But one of the elders asks John "who are these coming out of the great tribulation". That is, those coming out and the elders were two different classes of people. The elders have not come out of the great tribulation, but this multiude had. I admit that the passage is difficult, but it cetainly indicates that the great multitude coming out of the great tribulation were not christians and certainly not the church, which is heavenly and represented by the elders. They had washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb, certainly, but, as Christinyou says, the Holy Ghost was not there; the church age on earth had finished and the door closed.

Regarding Laodicea being the church which goes through the tribulation. There are verses in the Thyatira and Sardis addreses that show they will be there also at the end, but not Philadelphia. Philadelphphia represents the true church in these last days with little strength, keeping Christ's word and not denying His name. They will be kept out completely of the tribulation which is to come upon the whole world

David


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david

 2011/2/10 17:54Profile
davidc
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Joined: 2010/8/15
Posts: 272
France

 Re:

Hello again Staff

The temple could be built in the first 3.5 years if everyone involved had agreed to be bound by "the covenant", with the (false) promise of peace, peace, removing all the red tape.

David


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david

 2011/2/10 18:00Profile
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 Re:

Hi Christ in you,
Do you see the Noah/Lot examples and the women at the grindstone and the men in the field(one will be taken and the other left verses) as the same event? and do you believe in a 7 yr trib?or a 3.5 yr trib?
thanks staff

 2011/2/10 18:45Profile
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Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 2227


 Re:

hi David C,
I have seen reports of Arab digs near the temple mound where Jewish and Christian voices called crude.So I would say that any dig around the temple mount area would be painstaking.They may speed up certain things but that would not be one.Staff

 2011/2/10 18:57Profile





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