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 Re:


I'm sorry if I misunderstood this part of your sentence -


""Praise God In Christ, by His Faith I believe and am becoming I am and will be becoming an I am throughout all eternity...."


I guess it was just the wording?

Thanks for the reply.

 2011/1/10 14:59









 Re: Saint or sinner


Hi Doug,

You said

Quote:
Although the law was good it was weak through the flesh meaning that even when the Jews desired to follow the law they could not because the desires of the flesh overcame their desire to fulfill the law.

The sacrifices within the law COVERED sin with the blood of animals, to hide it from God's sight. There was never any suggestion that 'keeping the law' was something which could be done without the shedding of blood to protect them from God's wrath. The Day of Atonement was observed every year to deal with the sins (such as thought and omission) which were not represented in other sacrifices.

Only Jesus never had to bring sacrifices for sin on His own behalf as a Man.

What gave you the idea that the people didn't 'keep the law'?

Jesus Himself told the people to comply with the law of Moses as it was being taught by the Pharisees, but not to copy their behavour. Matt 23.

It's important to note Paul's claim for himself also.

Phil 3:6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

(The word 'blameless' occurs in both Old and New Testaments.)

And yet, even being blameless in its keeping, Paul says of the Israelites in his epistle to Rome, 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. 2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

As I posted earlier in the thread, the righteousness of God is something completely separate from the righteousness of the law.

Nothing could be clearer in v 3, and Paul has prefaced it in v 1 with the statement that such Israelites are not 'saved'.

But they can be, by submitting to the righteousness of God WITHOUT the law Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:'

Romans 10 v 4 For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

 2011/1/10 16:41









 Re: Saint or sinner


contd to Doug,

Quote:
Unfortunately the word "law" is not as simple as something always being written in stone or on paper for us to read. Paul spoke of the "law of faith and the "law of sin" and these particular laws are not written on either paper or stone but are laws that are alive within us. They are "spiritual laws" that exist spiritually within us that produce actions in the natural that if described within the definitions of grammar are nouns that produce verbs in the image of the noun. The Bible calls these living nouns to be "principalities" and there are both good and evil principalities living within us.

This paragraphs is a big mixture of ideas and biblical phrases. Your use of the word 'natural' is confusing, because we all have a natural man who can bring his actions into line with the law of God if he has believed on Jesus Christ for salvation.

The sin which corrupted the nature of man, bringing death upon all men, was executed on the cross when Jesus died, (Rom 6:6), and those who have received His death are not subject to it as they were before that, because the law of the Spirit of life IN Christ Jesus makes them FREE from the law of sin and death. That's one of the most important parts of the gospel.

I'm not sure you believe this though.



contd.

 2011/1/10 16:52









 Re: Saint or sinner


Hi Doug,

I think I covered the paragraph before this one.

Quote:
Look at it this way....... Christ never sins so when a Christians sins it is not Christ in them that is committing the sin but is the spirit of man in them committing the sin.

The Bible doesn't say this. I believe you are mixing up two thoughts. Yes, the incorruptible Seed is Christ, but He, through the Spirit, enables victory over sin, and, the believer with the help of the Holy Spirit PUTS TO DEATH the works of the flesh.

Quote:
Whichever spirit is ruling the heart determines whether a person either sins or lives the righteousness of God that is way above the best that man can do.

Again, I believe the decision to become a Christian ought to have ended one's active relationship with the practices of sin. If becoming a Christian has not altered your relationship with sin, then there is spiritual work to be done until it does.

Quote:
Consequently when a Christian sins it is because the "man of sin" is sitting in the temple of God".

I don't agree with this. The temple being spoken of is not the individual life. Nor is it, (I believe) a rebuilt third Temple in Jerusalem. You are correct that in the last two hundred years there has been a corruption of the biblical faith, but your explanation of 'the man of sin', also falls short. And, as I showed before, Jesus cast out many unclean spirits, and the person was able to live free of them. To attribute an unclean spirit to everyone is different from attributing sin to everyone.

 2011/1/10 17:22









 Re: Saint or sinner

Hi Doug,

You said

Quote:
The righteousness of the Pharisees (who followed the law "religiously") could never fulfill all of the law but the Law of Faith in us that is the seed that is Christ in us fulfills all of the laws of God today just as it did when Jesus walked on the earth 2000 years ago...... This is why Paul said with the law of Faith he served God but with the law of sin he served the flesh (spirit of man).

Where did Paul say that?

'but the Law of Faith in us that is the seed that is Christ in us'

Can you bring forward scripture to support these statements, please?

 2011/1/10 17:27
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Joined: 2010/9/19
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 Re:

Quote:
The sin which corrupted the nature of man, bringing death upon all men, was executed on the cross when Jesus died, (Rom 6:6), and those who have received His death are not subject to it as they were before that, because the law of the Spirit of life IN Christ Jesus makes them FREE from the law of sin and death. That's one of the most important parts of the gospel.

I'm not sure you believe this though.



Linn you are wrong! ........ Satan and sin were brought captive but not destroyed.

Sin is still alive in you just as it was in Paul............ do I have to quote Paul again who said that the law of sin lived in him? (Ro. 7:23)

Paul make it very clear here and in Hebrews that sin is still a problem for Christians....... once again the caps are my emphasis for your benefit

He.12;1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, LET US THROW OFF EVERYTHING THAT HINDERS AND THE SIN THAT SO EASILY ENTANGLES. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us,

Where do you think faith is if it is not in you?

Through the Cross Jesus has made available for you the power to defeat sin in you just as He did for Paul who was able to figure out what you still have to yet to learn.......... That power to defeat sin is the law of Christ that is the faith in you that is a more powerful law than the law of sin is because Jesus was given a name above every dominion when He took captivity captive through His resurrection and not through His death (Eph 1:21)

However if you are going to continue to deny scripture that clearly says that sin exits in Christians and is always trying to trip them up I do not know of anyway to help you........

Linn....... either the Bible is the infallible word of God or it is not. Either sin always remains sin or the Bible is a lie. For example even if you do something as simple as intentionally tell someone a lie knowing that it is a lie, is that not a presumptuous sin? ... Are you positive that you have not told any lies since becoming a Christian that you knew was a lie at the time you told it ?....... and if so then would that not be a sin?

Just because a person accepts Christ does not change the definition of sin and when a Christian sins they need to repent and confess it or it will be held against them.

Blessings

Doug








 2011/1/10 18:32Profile









 Re:

"Satan and sin were brought captive but not destroyed."

Hebrews 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death He might DESTROY him THAT HAD THE POWER OF DEATH, THAT IS, THE DEVIL.

Can't get any clearer than that!

John 1:29 ......Behold the Lamb of God, which TAKETH AWAY the sin of the world.

Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, CONDEMNED SIN IN THE FLESH.

Romans 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be DEAD INDEED UNTO SIN, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

It's very clear within these verses that Satan who is the devil has been destroyed and Christ not only took away sin, but condemned it on the cross.





 2011/1/10 19:24
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Joined: 2010/9/19
Posts: 134


 Re:

Quote:
Where did Paul say that?

'but the Law of Faith in us that is the seed that is Christ in us'

Can you bring forward scripture to support these statements, please?



Linn....... is the law of God not the law of Christ or in your mind is Jesus Christ not God incarnate?......... what law did Paul say that his mind used to overcome the law of sin in him?

Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death

God's Word is Law and His Law is spirit

Romans 7:14
 FOR WE KNOW THAT THE LAW IS SPIRITUAL: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Is the Holy Spirit not Christ the seed in you"....... what you need to do is figure out how you can get that seed of Christ to mature into a fruit producing tree of Jesus Christ in you.

How do you get faith? Is it not by hearing the Word of God so that the Word in you becomes the same Word that formed Jesus Christ?.... When the Word is complete in you is when Christ will be formed in you!

Faith is not your faith in Jesus Christ but the faith of Jesus Christ in you. Otherwise you would have to count on your own works to defeat the sin that lives in you and that is something that no person has ever accomplished.

The definition of something being in existence by law means that it is always in existence unless overcome by a more powerful law......... fortunately the law that faith works through (the law of Christ the seed in us) is a more powerful law than the law of sin is......... otherwise we would not be able to overcome sin and the "mystery of iniquity" would succeed in getting the unclean spirit of man returning to rule over the heart of a Christian instead of the Holy Spirit of Christ ruling over the Christian. (Matt 12, Luke 11)

Those who succeed with overcoming the law of sin will do so BECAUSE THEY OVERCOME AS HE OVERCAME THROUGH THE LAW OF CHRIST IN THEM!

If you plan on ever overcoming sin you first have to realize that Paul is telling you the truth about sin living in you........ otherwise that seed of Christ in you will never mature into a fruit producing tree.

Blessings

Doug



 2011/1/10 20:03Profile
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Joined: 2010/9/19
Posts: 134


 Re:

Quote:
Hebrews 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death He might DESTROY him THAT HAD THE POWER OF DEATH, THAT IS, THE DEVIL.

Can't get any clearer than that!



The word "might" refer to something being possible and the word might appears in every translation I have looked at (about fifteen of them).

Furthermore if sin was destroyed then Christian would never ever have to worry about ever sinning again......... now do you possibly think that is the case?

A simple yes or no will suffice

Blessings

Doug

 2011/1/10 20:09Profile









 Re:

"This is why Paul said with the law of Faith he served God but with the law of sin he served the flesh (spirit of man)."

How in the world have you concluded that the flesh of man is the same as the spirit of man?

When Paul said, "In me, that is my flesh, dwelleth no good thing". He wasn't referring to his spirit. He was saying his flesh, which isn't the spirit of man.

Jesus makes a distinction between the two.

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Paul even makes a distinction between the body and spirit.

1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole SPIRIT and SOUL and BODY be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

And again it is written...

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the DIVIDING ASUNDER OF SOUL AND SPIRIT , and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

 2011/1/10 20:10





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