I think it is going to be a natural response to see saints in a better light than how we would think a sinner appears yet the prodigal son was never "not a son". What about the lost sheep that Jesus celebrates being found?

Many times I have heard someone say "if so and so was really saved they would have never of done those things". However sin that is a noun and is a living principality is still alive in Christians after they "become saved". Paul make this very clear in Ro. 7:20 -24 and anyone who denies it is in error and living in the sin of unbelief even though they are still christians and called to be saints

Here in the Bible Belt of SC I find way to many "christians" that are senior church members, clergy members, and/or serving in the local government to be some of the most dishonest people I have ever met. But if you were to ask either them or other church members as to their "sinner or saint" status all that you are going to hear about is what good people they are.


Blessings

Doug

I realise there are many Christians, some of whom have posted on SI stating the beliefs which I disagree. I have not, I hope, attacked them for that.

Here are more scriptures which strongly suggest God has vanquished Satan and sin, that we might partake freely of His victory. I hope readers find them helpful.


Isaiah 40:1 Comfort ye, comfort ye my people, saith your God. 2 Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned: for she hath received of the LORD'S hand double for all her sins.

1 Corinthians 15:56 The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law. 57 But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.


Please note: 'which GIVETH us the victory'. In other words, we RECEIVE the complete victory, or, not.


Matthew 3: '... I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. 10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Matthew 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

Matthew 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

2 Corinthians 5 - Young's
14 for the love of the Christ doth constrain us, having judged thus: that if one for all died, then the whole died, 15 and for all he died, that those living, no more to themselves may live, but to him who died for them, and was raised again. 16 So that we henceforth have known no one according to the flesh, and even if we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know him no more; 17 so that if any one [is] in Christ--[he is] a new creature; the old things did pass away, lo, become new have the all things. 18 And the all things [are] of God, who reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and did give to us the ministration of the reconciliation, 19 how that God was in Christ--a world reconciling to Himself, not reckoning to them their trespasses; and having put in us the word of the reconciliation, 20 in behalf of Christ, then, we are ambassadors, as if God were calling through us, we beseech, in behalf of Christ, `Be ye reconciled to God;' 21 for him who did not know sin, in our behalf He did make sin, that we may become the righteousness of God in him.


KJV again: Galatians 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

1 Peter 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: 22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: 23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed [himself] to him that judgeth righteously: 24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.


The word 'faith' does not appear in John's gospel, but 'believe' appears 80 times.



Edited for brevity.

Sister Linn

The spirit of the life of Jesus Christ that is the law of faith in you does make you free from the law of in and death because through it you can overcome the law of sin still living in you. However that does not mean that sin in you, me or anyone else has already been destroyed. For the law of sin in us to be already destroyed would mean that the process of our sanctification is already complete.

Are you fully sanctified Linn?......... Personally I do not think anyone that is alive today is already sanctified but if you think different then please consider the following verse

He. 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

To be "one" in the scripture is to be the same as Jesus who is the expressed image of God who together are "one". In other words if we are fully sanctified then we appear the same as Jesus Christ and are not unlike the "fellow servant" that looked so much like Jesus in Rev. 19;10 that John who walked with Jesus throughout His Ministry was not able to tell them apart.

Paul makes it very clear that he is still dealing with the temptations of sin in Ro 7 that he goes as far a to call himself "wretched" over the constant diligence of keeping sin from overtaking him

The caps are my emphasis to help you see that the body of sin is still alive and well in Christians

Ro.7: 17 Now then it is no more I that do it, BUT SIN THAT DWELLETH IN ME.

18 FOR I KNOW THAT IN ME (THAT IS, IN MY FLESH,) DWELLETH NO GOOD THING: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, BUT SIN THAT DWELLETH IN ME.

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and BRINGING ME INTO CAPTIVITY TO THE LAW OF SIN WHICH IS IN MY MEMBERS.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then WITH THE MIND I MYSELF SERVE THE LAW OF GOD; BUT WITH THE FLESH THE LAW OF SIN.

"Paul is obviously talking about us living in the Holy Spirit and not the unclean spirit of man yet the Holy Spirit that knows all truth also knows that Paul agrees that sin still lives in man."

Huh?

"not the unclean spirit of man"

When I read this my mind immediately went to this portion of scripture.

Acts 10:11 And [peter] saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending upon him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:

Acts 10:12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.

Acts 10:13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.

Acts 10:14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.

Acts 10:15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, WHAT GOD HATH CLEANSED, that call not thou common.

Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we ARE sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Hello Approved

Man is vessel that lives by whatever spirit that is in the heart and if you take away the spirit the body is dead (James 2:26)

All of mankind is made this way but because the spirit of man is an unclean earthly spirit because of sin in it, through the blessing of Pentecost that follows our experience with the Passover sacrifice we are given the Holy Spirit that is a clean heavenly spirit and is part of the free gift of salvation.

When Peter saw that the Gentiles had received the Holy Spirit that now lived in their heart instead of the unclean spirit of man, through that knowledge and what God showed him in the vision Peter knew that the heart of the gentiles was now clean because of Holy Spirit was now living in place of the unclean spirit of man that had been in their heart before they were baptized with the Holy Spirit.

For what happens to the old unclean spirit is part of what we are talking about a sin still living in us so please consider the following teaching of Jesus

Matt 12: 43When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.

44Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.

45Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

The unclean spirit doe not have to travel far because the dry places are the dust that our bodies are made of...........Thus Paul said with the flesh he served the sin that till lived in him or with the mind he served God.

The life that is in our heart is seen through the actions taken by the mind that is part of the soul so if the unclean spirit returns to the heart as it does in the teaching of Jesus then the person is worse off then they were before.

Hopefully that explains what you are asking about

Blessings

Doug

Hi Doug,

I apologise if the way I've been replying has only stirred up a sense of injustice in you.

It is clear we hold different views in the meaning of certain verses. I am aware of how long it has taken me to grasp certain scriptures which were mysterious to me for many years, and that you may have further revelation from time to time as I have had, which will open up to you a different view than you have now. There is a brother who posts here sometimes who asks, 'If you haven't changed your mind recently, how do you know you still have one?' The question is lighthearted of course, but may be helpful when reconsidering old things in new light.

Let me also apologise for the length of this post.


With regard to sanctification, I do believe I am sanctified. This has been discussed before on SI by others, and from those discussions I have learned that a better word for 'sanctification' would be 'glorification'; and that the word 'sanctify', means to set apart, or, to be set apart, as a betrothed wife would set herself apart for her betrothed husband. This separation from others for a specific purpose is the same picture as in the Temple, where certain vessels were 'set apart' for 'holy' uses. These vessels still had to undergo other preparation, but they were ALREADY 'holy', or 'sanctified'.

Regarding 'glorification', there is an inherent association with death and suffering, although these are not mentioned specifically in 2 Cor 3:18.

Acts 5:41 And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name.

Acts 9:16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

Romans 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with [him], that we may be also glorified together.

Philipp 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

1 Peter 2:20 For what glory [is it], if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer [for it], ye take it patiently, this [is] acceptable with God.

1 Peter 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; 2 That he no longer should live the rest of [his] time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

What I had in mind in quoting Heb 10:14 in the KJV perfect tense, accords with 'sanctification' as a completed work, rather than 'glorfication' as an ongoing process of identifying which Christ and reproach for His name's sake (Heb 13).

Alive to God,

This is a bit off the subject, but I been pondering something related to what you said about glorification, after trying to learn about headcoverings.

I noticed women's submission first to parents, which then passes to the submission to her husband is compared to Jesus submission to The Father. Because women came out of man as Jesus came out of The father.

I have received a teaching passed along by a sister here, that Satan is always about domination. Satan sort to be equal to God, and was cast out of the heavens. Eve believed the lies of Satan, sort the same and was cast out of the garden.

The kingdom of God always seems to be about submission, humbling yourself, suffering for another. The son glorifies the Father, and in turn The Father glorifies the son.

We must submit to be glorified, the women to the man, the man to Jesus, Jesus to the father.

Is this how you see glorification or am I on the wrong track?

Good Morning AtG

"Signs and wonders do not mean that a ministry is approved of by God but any ministry approved of by God either reveals the power of His presence or God is not there."

Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you BY miracles and wonders and signs, which God did BY him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know.

When you say "God has given us His Laws". Which laws are we to observe and put into practise?