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 Re:


Goodness, this seems to be Matt 24 day with me. /o:


Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

 2011/1/11 10:37









 Re: Saint or sinner


Hi Doug,

There is one last thought I wish to add about the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

For a long time, I thought evil was equally as strong as God, and that it was a bit dodgy to believe God had somehow beaten it for ever.

Then I learned that Satan had been His chief cherubim - a created being - a spirit who was designed to serve God, who had rebelled.

This understanding put God's creative power in perspective for me, and my own personal journey of being re-created in His image was then a much more secure promise in my own heart.

Likewise, evil receives personification in people. There is NO evil IN God. It is not a manifestation of part of His nature, which one might fear will emerge when He is upset about something.

God has done everything and more, to leave mankind without any excuse for not believing in His salvation, and when He is ready to pour out His wrath on unbelievers, it will be totally just and fair, a manifestation of His righteousness.


Lastly, I would like to draw your attention again to the promises of the New Covenant, with regard to 'the heart', which you often mention.

God's assessment of men's hearts in their native state, is that they had become as stone. One of the necessities of new birth is not only a new spirit (the Holy Spirit), but also that of a new heart.

Ezekiel 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

Hebrews 8:10 For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

2 Corinthians 3:3 [Forasmuch as ye are] manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

Ephesians 3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what [is] the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; 19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

Romans 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us. 6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

 2011/1/11 10:48
Lesserlight
Member



Joined: 2010/9/19
Posts: 134


 Re: what did Jesus say?

Quote:
mguldner is not deceived. In Matthew 7 Jesus did NOT say that we would know false teachers and false prophets, “by their gifts.” No, He did not!

The correct Scripture is, “"So then, you will know them by their FRUITS.




Lysa...... As part of your sanctification process and learning how to overcome sin you are supposed to grow in knowledge

When Jesus said to the crowd who were in disbelief that He was the Son of God what are the works that He spoke of that were the "fruit that He was known by"....... were they kindness and love etc etc that you are claiming are the fruits that determine that Christ is in a person or were they signs of the presence of God doing divine works through signs and wonders?

WELL WHAT DID JESUS SAY?

John 5:36
“I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the works that the Father has given me to finish—the very works that I am doing—testify that the Father has sent me.

John 10:25
Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me

John 10:32
but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”

John 10:37
Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father.

Now let us look at the verse you have referenced

Matthew 7:20 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Do you see anything in that entire chapter where Jesus Christ was saying that the fruits that would identify the apostles and prophets of those day as well as today would only produce simple fruits that any nice atheists, Jew, Muslim etc etc can produce?......... or does Jesus say the following to us for our edification as to who would do the works of God?

The same as for AtG the caps are my emphasis for your benefit.

Jn 14 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

11Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

12Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, THE WORKS THAT I DO SHALL HE DO ALSO; AND GREATER WORKS THAN THESE SHALL HE DO; because I go unto my Father.

Do you know what my fear for you is Lisa?

Even though that you have just been proven wrong you will not see it and will still prefer the traditions of man that makes the Word of God to be of no effect that has caused the godless church that we see on every main street in this country.

However there are those that do produce the signs and wonders that Jesus did that are by the grace of God in them and not the presence of satan in the church that causes todays christians to think that they are not suppose to be producing divine works and instead like you are satisfied with the works that any nice atheist can do.......... such a shame and it is no wonder why one name that Jesus called the church in Revelations to be is that it is/was the synagogue of satan

Still Blessings to you and I hope for your improvement

Doug






 2011/1/11 11:16Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3421
This world is not my home anymore.

 speaking in tongues


I was trying to stay out of this thread but I must say that I agree with Alive-to-God’s assessment...

Quote:
One of the difficulties your doctrines present to Bible believing Christians, is that from time to time you blatantly disagree with scripture.



And this is one of those times.... to tell Christians that God has left them out and that Christ cannot be formed in them because they don’t speak in tongues is pure and simple error.

Quote:
lesserlight wrote on 2011/1/11
If either of those two of the simplest of spiritual gifts are not present with you then you need to ask God why for some reason He has left you out.

Without first being baptized in the Holy Spirit that is always given with evidence, Christ cannot ever be formed in someone!!!


Jesus said in John 14.17, “but you know Him because He abides WITH you, and will be in you.” The Holy Spirit is WITH every born again believer.

Brother, I believe in the baptism of the Holy Ghost (Spirit), I believe in speaking in tongues along with all the gifts. But no where have I found Scripture to even allude to what you are saying.

Scriptures states three ways that we overcome In Revelation 12.11, “And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.”

Will you please provide the Scriptures that explicitly state that 1. God has left any one out because they do not speak in tongues? 2. That we overcome by speaking in tongues alone? I look forward to Scriptural evidence of the questions.


PS: Does your doctrine have a name?


_________________
Lisa

 2011/1/11 11:18Profile
Lesserlight
Member



Joined: 2010/9/19
Posts: 134


 Re: speaking in tongues

Quote:

I was trying to stay out of this thread but I must say that I agree with Alive-to-God’s assessment...

Quote:
One of the difficulties your doctrines present to Bible believing Christians, is that from time to time you blatantly disagree with scripture.



And this is one of those times.... to tell Christians that God has left them out and that Christ cannot be formed in them because they don’t speak in tongues is pure and simple error.

Quote:
lesserlight wrote on 2011/1/11
If either of those two of the simplest of spiritual gifts are not present with you then you need to ask God why for some reason He has left you out.

Without first being baptized in the Holy Spirit that is always given with evidence, Christ cannot ever be formed in someone!!!


Jesus said in John 14.17, “but you know Him because He abides WITH you, and will be in you.” The Holy Spirit is WITH every born again believer.

Brother, I believe in the baptism of the Holy Ghost (Spirit), I believe in speaking in tongues along with all the gifts. But no where have I found Scripture to even allude to what you are saying.

Scriptures states three ways that we overcome In Revelation 12.11, “And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.”

Will you please provide the Scriptures that explicitly state that 1. God has left any one out because they do not speak in tongues? 2. That we overcome by speaking in tongues alone? I look forward to Scriptural evidence of the questions.




LISA!!!!.......... This is not the first time you have born false witness against me and like AtG you are worthy of rebuke

You said

Quote:
to tell Christians that God has left them out and that Christ cannot be formed in them because they don’t speak in tongues is pure and simple error.



Where and when did I ever say that and why did you not just quote me unless you figured you would get away with either twisting and adding words to what I did say that is for your benefit only .......... or without any shame you are purposely telling a lie and thinking that no one will go back and check my posts........... Which one is it?

This is a quote of what I said and it is hardly just a small difference

Quote:
I am not speaking of signs and wonders as in miracles but just the simplest of spiritual gifts such as the gift of tongue or the ability to prophesies (truthfully and accurately) as well as understand the prophecies in scripture that are from Genesis to Revelations......... If either of those two of the simplest of spiritual gifts are not present with you then you need to ask God why for some reason He has left you out.



Why would you not just quote my post as I have done if you were not trying to twist and change my words to say something that I did not say?

Now I will say this very clearly and you are welcome to quote me as well as you can take to the bank or bet the farm or any other local quip that is used in your locale that translated means a sure thing........ that if someone has not ever brought forth any signs of the divine presence of God in them then they have not been baptized in the Holy Spirit and any one who has been baptized in the Holy Spirit has experienced the divine works of God. In addition to that a Christian will not experience Christ being formed in them without first being baptized in the HOLY SPIRIT that is the Christ seed in them that gives them the power to become a son of God

And to you personally if you do not agree with that then those who have been teaching you still need to be taught

Peter also agrees to that doctrine and I am going to give a once and for all time reason that since there no highlight buttons here that I can find that for the benefit of you or anyone else that when I use caps that are not in the original text I do so for your benefit and I am no longer going to take the time to state so every time I use caps for the benefit of someone else.

2 Peter 1:4
Whereby are GIVEN UNTO US EXCEEDING GREAT AND PRECIOUS PROMISES: THAT BY THESE YE MIGHT BE PARTAKERS OF THE DIVINE NATURE, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

LISA....... God marks His children by the presence of the divine that is the seal of the promise given to us......... and while you are quoting me you can add this.....This business of anyone here or anywhere else that thinks the following ...... that because they believe on the name of Jesus they have automatically overcome sin, automatically been baptized in the Holy Spirit (that is only the "earnest" of our inheritance") and are automatically already sanctified without any sign of the divine presence of God in them yet still be able to sin without any repentance fear or of the Lord is a doctrine straight from the pits of hell and something that the Apostle never ever preached..... and that you can take to the bank and quote me all you want....... but please no more false accusations............. fair enough?

A far as the doctrines, names or labels that you are peaking of goes ......... I know nothing of who or what you are talking about.

However for your benefit I will say this ........ the people that I am like-minded with all participate in some sort of divine gift from God and speaking in tongues is not held in any more esteem than what it is and that is that it is the least of all gifts......... In other words those who are above that level either prophesy what is true and does happen or are able to lay hands on to heal or through the power of the Holy Spirit in them are able to baptize others in the Holy Spirit all the way up to and including the raising of the dead.......


Unfortunately tongues is a highly abused and over emphasized gift and without an interpreter i not benefiting anyone else beyond the speaker.......... it was about nine years ago when I said to the Lord that I preferred to never pray in tongues again and that I would always know exactly what I was saying when I prayed....... and I have not prayed in tongues since then however I seen many other signs of the divine presence. For a FYI I have seen every one of the above divine gifts however these things are only the norm for those who have been baptized in the Holy Spirit and those that I am likeminded with all seek far greater things to come.

One of these days and hopefully before this life comes to an end you are going to find out that your worship is deeply rooted in Babylon where they still worship the image of the beat that is the spirit and mind of man.

Doug

PS........ the blood the lamb is where the Holy Spirit come from and why we have to fist go to Cross and cannot go directly to Pentecost

However you cannot have His testimony in you that is His truth in you without making it through Pentecost and Tabernacles where first you get the law written on your heart at Pentecost and then finally the gift that comes from tabernacles that you are not yet prepared to receive but Jesus referred to it a new wine bottles

To Andy ........ Please learn the spirit of the word....... Christ never has sin and it is only because he is a sinless offering for sin that that qualified him to pay our debt for sin and is our covering for sin..... that is what your passage means





 2011/1/11 14:03Profile









 Re: Saint or sinner


EDIT: Doug, I want you and readers to know that I began writing this post before you posted your last. I had no idea what you had written when I decided to submit.

Quote:
does Jesus say the following to us for our edification as to who would do the works of God?

The same as for AtG the caps are my emphasis for your benefit.

Jn 14 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

11Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

12Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, THE WORKS THAT I DO SHALL HE DO ALSO; AND GREATER WORKS THAN THESE SHALL HE DO; because I go unto my Father.

Hi Doug,

Beware lest you make an idol of the works God has graciously used you to perform.

Matt 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

The priority, before the outworking of any 'ministry' we have, is to worship God. To reject every idol from our heart and life. To obey His calling on our individual lives, without neglecting our role in His body.


1 John 5:21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.

John 4:23 [Jesus said] But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.'

John 21:21 Peter seeing him [John] saith to Jesus, Lord, and what [shall] this man [do]? 22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what [is that] to thee? follow thou me.


Like you, I hope to be recognised by the Lord, on that day.

 2011/1/11 14:22









 Re:

Mgulder said,

Quote:
Keep in mind Faith, Hope, and Love are the Greater gifts and are the ones we are to seek diligently.

These words are true because they are written. However, we must not forget how love enters our heart, by the Holy Ghost.

Romans 5:5 .......the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

Now notice the latter portion of that verse, "Which is given unto us".

When was it given?

By what examples are given to those that have received the Holy Spirit?

It is extra biblical to assume that anyone that has received the Holy Spirit didn't experience some sort of a manifestation when He came in.

Yes pride and arrogance does come to those that speak in tongues, but I have also seen this same pride amongst Baptist who deny the operation of the Holy Spirit.

Do we negate the word of God because people make so much ado about one of the gifts? Certainly not.

If they are one of His, God will deal with them through the avenues to which He has placed in His Church first Apostles, Prophets, Evangelist, Pastors and Teachers.

We always say that we need to stick with the context of the bible, in regards to receiving the Holy Spirit, then lets stick to the context and not dilly dally with our pet doctrines so we can make non effect the promise which was not only for the Jews to receive but for those that are afar off.

We are praying for revival, we may as well get used to the idea that when revival comes, your going to see all types of manifestations of the Spirit.

 2011/1/11 15:12









 Re:

Quote:
In that teaching you will see where the unclean spirit when he goes "out from the man" (the life is in the blood and the blood is pumped by the heart which is where whatever spirit resides that is ruling over the person) he then wanders in the dry places that is the dust that your physical flesh is made of where he then runs into the wicked friend that are the human senses that get people in trouble today just as it got Adam and Even in trouble

Oh my Lord. I know you won't receive this Doug, but you need to be retaught on this subject. Now, before you read any further, take a few deep breaths and relax and look at me as one who is taking the time to show you something that you might have overlooked. Jesus said, "Blessed are the meek". A meek person is one who is teachable.

Let us go to the text and I'll just cut and paste them here, not only for our purpose but for anyone who is peering into this thread.

Matthew 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.

Matthew 12:44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.

Matthew 12:45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

Verse 43 says, When the unclean spirit is GONE OUT of a man".

The unclean spirit here is not the man's spirit, it's another spirit that has attached himself to this man, we know this by what we read in verse 45.

Now you said and I quote,
Quote:
Well what spirit do you think it is that gives life to the natural man because a body without a spirit is dead

"because a body without a spirit is dead". This is true. However, what your saying is the man's spirit comes out of the body and wanders in desolate places.

Without his spirit the man is dead. A man who is physically dead is buried. How then can this unclean spirit whom you say is the man's spirit come back into a body that is dead? That requires a resurrection, that requires the power of God and your saying that this unclean spirit of man goes and finds seven more spirits more wicked then himself to re enter a body that is dead.

God would have to resuscitate him so he and his wicked spirits can come back in and do more damage.

This is a parable by the way and when you read it in the context, it's talking about something totally different.

I know you won't receive this. Remember, "Blessed are the Meek".

 2011/1/11 15:38
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3421
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re:

Quote:
lesserlight wrote on 2011/1/11
Where and when did I ever say that and why did you not just quote me unless you figured you would get away with either twisting and adding words to what I did say that is for your benefit only


Bro, can you not read, I did quote you. I did not twist anything... you wrote what you wrote.

Repost of mine from earlier today: Where does this ‘no seed? no tree” stuff come from? I looked it up and the only thing that came up was prosperity teachers; one in particular kept, Robert G. Allen; is that what you believe? Are you a word of faith type of Christian?

You are in error to even insinuate that God that, “Without first being baptized in the Holy Spirit that is always given with evidence, Christ cannot ever be formed in someone.” I hope you are satisfied that I quoted you and.... you are still in error.

And please, do not even think to chastise me; I will submit to the moderator’s chastisement alone, not yours.


_________________
Lisa

 2011/1/11 15:41Profile









 Re: what did Jesus say?

Quote:
The correct Scripture is, “"So then, you will know them by their FRUITS.”

A more clearer understanding of this Fruit is,

John 13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

 2011/1/11 17:32





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