| Poster | Thread | UntoBabes
Member
Joined: 2010/8/24
Posts: 1035
Oregon
| | Re: | | Mr. West, I thank you for the original post. It was very encouraging to me. If we don't agree on anything more that the fact that we need to seek God more and draw closer to Him, that would still be enough.
_________________
Fifi
|
|  2010/12/29 0:32 | Profile | StarofG0D
Member
Joined: 2007/10/28
Posts: 1232
United States
| | Re: | | Quote:
The obvious evidence of being filled usually manifests during times of ministry, with noted power and authority upon your words, but it can also manifest quietly in unseen acts of love and in a profound concern for others.
I like how you put this brother Paul.
It is not only in the "extreme" times of much ministry that He (the Holy Spirit) is present. But also in the "low" times, though not always as "evident." But in some ways should be more evident all the more, depending on how we perceive Him.Quote:
unseen acts of love and in a profound concern for others.
_________________
Michelle
|
| | 2010/12/29 0:36 | Profile |
| | Re: | | I believe the LORD deals differently with all of us - just as He did while on earth.
When I was first saved, when I knelt to pray, I began to pray in King James English. That startled me because of what a wretch He saved. My native tongue was street-talk before I first heard the Gospel and responded - so "startled" is far from an over-statement.
For over two years after, I feared "tongues". I read every Classic that I could get my hands on and I believed the Book of Acts type Church was the Norm - yet I feared 'tongues' because I was acutely aware of counterfeits.
Finally, the LORD showed me Luke 11:11-13 until I didn't fear seeking anymore so I went up for prayer.
After what seemed like an hour of praying and being prayed with I got 1 word in 'tongues' - just one word, but a joy overwhelmed me that I knew wasn't from me and when I got home, all I wanted to do was devour His Word - overwhelming desire for all that I could get of His Word.
The prayer language came some weeks later while praying privately, without any effort or thought of it - I was just praying and praising and there it came. Another surprise.
The LORD showed me that the King James was the first touch because He knew I'd fear tongues for a while - and the touch at Church was the next step - straight into His WORD.
Both experiences confirmed to me that the Book of Acts type Church is the norm, as long as The WORD of GOD is held up as high as it should be.
I know that everyone's experience is as different as He created us to be as unique as snowflakes or flowers, no two the same, yet perfectly fitting together to make up His Body. GOD is So GOOD to all of us, equally. |
| | 2010/12/29 0:44 | | PaulWest
Member
Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas
| | Re: | | Quote:
If we don't agree on anything more that the fact that we need to seek God more and draw closer to Him, that would still be enough.
When the initial power of the Holy Spirit came upon me and equipped me for ministry, I never spoke in tongues. Truthfully, I didn't know I "had" to. I hadn't read the Acts of the Apostles yet for I was still a very new Christian. I simply loved the Lord fervently and had an intese desire to serve Him in whatever capacity He had for me. The first time His power came upon me, it took me to the floor in wave after wave of glory. All I could do was weep aloud and cry "Jesus!" over and over again. My wife was there, she can attest to it. I had to be driven home from the assembly of believers and put to bed. I am not a man given to extreme shows of emotion, so this shocked many people.
Shortly after this event, God called me to preach His word with signs and wonders following both in the church and on the street. I will not go into details here, for I am uncomfortable speaking about these things with the fear of taking the glory from God. But I can put you in touch with some of the people who were there, and will tell you of things the Holy Spirit did that will absolutely amaze you. And throughout it all, no one - including myself - ever spoke in a tongue.
Seeing all the signs and wonders and power on the ministry, I was eventually approached by a pastor who wanted to plug me into the Assemblies of God. He brought me to an annual conference/convention in Waxahatchie, Texas along with my wife and a few others from our church. One of the "workshops": "The Baptism in the Holy Ghost". A man taught that unless you've spoken in tongues you were not genuinely filled with the Holy Spirit according to scripture. So convincing was he, that I and about 70 others believed him, and went forward for him to lay his hands on us and pray that we would receive the genuine infilling. He coached us and encouraged us to just focus on Jesus, and let any syllable roll off our tongues that wanted to. Only make sure it wasn't English. It had to be a foreign sound.
After about 20 minutes of standing up there and having people shout over me and catchers standing behind me, I began to become disillusioned and just wanted to go back to my seat and sit down. Ah, but people were watching me! Youth from my church! So I faked it. I spoke some words prasing God in Russian (my second language), and the man coaching me was satisfied. When we returned to our home church that Sunday, the pastor told everyone that Brother Paul was now "filled with the Holy Spirit" and everyone cheered and applauded. But I knew it was a fake, and I never told anyone but my wife. And now SermonIndex.
A few years later I was accepted into the Assemblies of God as a certified minister and given the title "evangelist" and "reverend". My pastor vouched for my Spirit Baptism before the board, and attested to the subsequent power connected to my ministry. But he forgot that these signs and wonders were present for years in my ministry before going to Waxahatchie and being coached to speak in a foreign tongue.
I have since relinquished my credentials with the AG due to various issues, but believe they are a good organization and mean well. All throughout the Bible and church history we see that God is sovereign in His dispensations and giftings, and that when we try to put Him in a mold He confounds our theories with present, irrefutable reality. He does what He pleases when it is said and done, and no one can command, categorize or legislate His sovereign will otherwise -- especially when it comes to the moving, birthing-again and filling of the Holy Spirit.
_________________
Paul Frederick West
|
| | 2010/12/29 11:02 | Profile | UntoBabes
Member
Joined: 2010/8/24
Posts: 1035
Oregon
| | Re: | | Wow, I think we finally agree. Let God be God.
On the other hand, I know I do not have the Holy Spirit baptism and it is getting to me because I believe that any effort to evangalize would be a work of the flesh and will not produce true Holy Spirit conviction.
I have gone to some penticostal churches but have not felt that the Spirit is even there. I know the time right now is a time of apostasy but are there any genuine Penticostal preachers around that still do that?
I don't want to receive something foreign, and with all the holy laughter and none sense that is going on now, I am affraid to just go some place where I regret it .
I also heard that some people have received the baptism directly form God. What is the difference?
_________________
Fifi
|
| | 2010/12/29 11:21 | Profile | PaulWest
Member
Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas
| | Re: | | Quote:
I have gone to some penticostal churches but have not felt that the Spirit is even there. I know the time right now is a time of apostasy but are there any genuine Penticostal preachers around that still do that?
Yes, I believe that there are Pentecostal churches that have the genuine moving of the Holy Spirit. But the vast majority of churches today are operating in soul power rather than Holy Spirit power. A deception that is almost impossible to differentiate from the real if you do not have the gift of discernment.
If you're looking for tongues and making that a requirement from God (in other words, legislating how God must perform His sovereign will), don't be suprised if you find yourself searching and searching. God has His own plan for your life, and it may be similiar to D.L. Moody's or Finney's experience of Holy Ghost baptism - with no tongues at all, but a definite "infilling" after their initial salvation experience. Or God may choose to endue you without a distinct, heralding "baptism experience" like he did with Whitefield and Wesley and suddenly give you such supernatural authority in evangelism where men flock in droves to hear the gospel and cry out in repentence and fall to groud as if dead. There are no cookie-cutter patterns with God, and you'll need to unprogram yourself from expecting God to go a certain route with you in terms of the moving of His Spirit. The other alternative is to hold to your already-settled convictions and continue on in the path you're going. It doesn't matter how many books you read by Wigglesworth or anyone else: God's sovereign will for your life is God's will, and nothing can change it. But I think you can restrict it, or delay it, with the wrong mindset.
I receieved power when I understood not that I needed to be "baptized"; God saw my heart and met me where I was and filled me with His Spirit. It was only after the fact that I realized what had happened. The process was reversed with me, I guess you can say.
_________________
Paul Frederick West
|
| | 2010/12/29 12:36 | Profile | UntoBabes
Member
Joined: 2010/8/24
Posts: 1035
Oregon
| | Re: | | Quote:
God may choose to endue you without a distinct, heralding "baptism experience" like he did with Whitefield and Wesley and suddenly give you such supernatural authority in evangelism where men flock in droves to hear the gospel and cry out in repentence and fall to groud as if dead.
No flocking in droves necessary.
I think we all need power in our witnessing, be it to our families, neighbors, or church members.
Many think they are saved but they are not, and nothing will convince them until they experience what true salvation looks like.
_________________
Fifi
|
| | 2010/12/29 12:59 | Profile |
|
