| Prophetic receptions and rejections...|
CONTINUED: Ideas on the prophetic call:..[ Jimm ]
4.]The prophet stands before God alone. This is very, very hard and greatly misunderstood. Expect to be treated so. It must be so, for too much time in the trees, makes you blind to the forest.This also creates illusionary and unstable presumption in many. Many believe every dream they have is from God, not realizing that Satan will make sure,make sure, that the true prophet receives a lying dream or two. [your brother?]..[ I certainly have..]
5] It will always be used for the good of the church, and for nations and people groups....to turn to God, as a blessing.
5.] THE PROPHETIC HAS ALWAYS BEEN THERE.People readily receive the apostle Paul's doctrine[thank God for the man..], but few consider his prophetic origins. Do we realize that Paul received his doctrine in Heaven itself, from the lips of Jesus?...and heard some things illegal to share on Earth, but necessary for his understanding? The same Spirit exists within the church today.
6.] REJECTED.The gift will never create doctrine, as Paul's did for multiple billions, but will reveal Jesus's heart on a matter, and WILL show us things to come. If people heed the true prophetic, it can save their lives, yet, if it is the true WORD of God, it will stand alone. There must never be personal ownership of God's word. This can be a huge problem for prophetic people.
We must NEVER manipulate the church or anyone through our prophesies, nor be offended when rejected. Even Jeremiah had one or two who received him. This is the key. Whoever receives a prophet, receives his reward. For those who don't, well, you may grieve at the hardness of heart they possess,or your pride may be offended; [HOW DARE THEY!!!REJECT GOD'S MAN!] but never take it personally. It's between them, and God, and we must learn to love and show mercy to those who REJECT us, and our word.
7.] HUMILITY!..Your a nobody anyway, a worm that God chose to make a Prince before him. Do not be enamored by your revelation, calling, or standing with God. If you are of the true, you will just be inviting more severe discipline to fall upon you, and the deeper the revelation and calling, the more severe the chastisement and discipline.
This must be accomplished in the spirit of worship. The best prophets are the ones who have learned personally that the Father seeks worshippers, who will worship Him in Spirit and in Truth. If you ever attain unto true power, to heal, do exploits, to cast out demons and rebuke the heavenly demon kings under Jesus's feet, then it is here, in WORSHIP, it will be given.
You are not superior, but the least and unworthy, but just called and anointed.
My ideas..with some experience.
| 2010/12/3 6:25|
| Re: Reasons for the failure of prophetic movements|
Quote:The error that most prophets fall into is dating the times it would happen. There is only just a couple of instances in the OT where a prophet said that such and such a thing would happen very shortly, the rest were wrapped up neatly in proverbs and parables so that those that had an ear to hear could recognize when those future fulfilments had occurred.
There is not enough information on different degrees of prophetic anointing and different types of prophecy. Not all prophets posses the same type of gifting but each type has different uses and limitations.
Putting a time to something that has been uttered to the wind is pretty scary and your putting your life and your reputation out on a line.
Years ago a well known evangelist from Georgia had stated that things were going to get really bad in the 90's and there would be a bad food shortage. Well, nothing like that happened here, but he wasn't off, he had made the mistake like all prophets when they get excited about receiving information from God, is that they either get too cocky, or and I think it's this latter part that is more the obvious, is that what they received from God sounds so urgent that it feels like it's going to happen right away.
There will be a food shortage. And something will happen in New York, and perhaps even in Washington.
A friend of mine had a dream where she saw everyone she knew being gathered together in a gymnasium, there were men who came to each person and said, "Deny Christ", when they didn't, they were instantly shot. When they came to her, they asked the question and the dream ended with the words, "this is not to far away". There was no specific dates that this would happen. She told only a couple of people. The reason why she told only a few is because the dream scared her because she stood there in the dream scared to die, and scared to deny Christ. The dream ended at that moment leaving the thought, "will I deny Christ?". So she didn't run around telling everyone she could find.
We've got to learn to stop putting dates to these, and yes, arrogance is a trait seen amongst many prophets, and not just prophets but any aspect of ministry.
By the way Jimm, are you Ironman? if so, Welcome Back Brother.
| 2010/12/3 8:42|
| Re: Prophetic receptions and rejections...|
Hey there Brothertom,
What a great word. this has shed a lot of light on the prophetic movement. from your opinion and experience, are the same thoughts that I have had from reading the word about major and minor prophets and how they project themselves to others.
We all must have a heart likened to Jesus. A heart for others. I believe there was a reason that biblical prophets had attidude toward there enemies but not toward there brothers or sisters.
I think the prophetic movement has missed this. Without compassion you will have no passion. Pray to have the Fathers heart, like that of Jesus Christ.
| 2010/12/3 9:14||Profile|
| Re: |
Lots of experience in hearing utterances..... I suppose most who have dedicated themselves to the Lord have heard from Him. Personally I am still looking for the Word to be spoken that will cause everyone to say Amen.
Rick Joyner's place is only ten minutes from me and the first time I went there when I got out of my car I saw what I had seen years earlier in a dream that I had felt at the time was from the Lord but because I did not understand what it meant I soon forgot about the dream.
So when I saw these buildings looking exactly like my dream I was so excited that I had found the place where the Lord would have to go to learn, to hear and to follow. So excited that I forgot the rest of the dream on wandering around inside these beautiful buildings but the inside was like deserted industrial warehouses having to pick your way through the broken girders and stairwells, hanging wires etc.
However a few weeks there not only had I remembered all of the dream it was made plain to me what many of you probably knew that I would come to realize as soon as I said what I did.
So why is there such a big difference in how RJ perceives the things of God versus how I do?....... This is what the Lord has shown me
The Spirit of Christ is the spirit of prophecy and if we have the Spirit of Christ we are to have the spirit of prophecy...... plain and simple
So what is the spirit of prophecy?
All of the Bible is a prophecy starting in the Garden on through the Laws to the history of Israel. Add to it ministry of Jesus then that of the Apostles that all ends up in Revelations that is the revealing of Christ that nobody can understand without the spirit of prophecy that is Christ within you
The spirit of Christ in us is the faith that is needed to unlock all the mysteries and allegories in the Scriptures and be able to have confidence that what you believe is the truth and not just what we think is the truth.
"Words" have been spoken to countless amounts of people but where is the faith that Jude spoke that was given to the saint that we are to contend for?
For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
Faith is not our faith in Jesus but the faith of Jesus in us that is the seed that is Christ that just happens to be the spirit of prophecy...... To me it appears obvious that if there is "enough of Jesus" in someone then they have the spirit of prophecy that will unlock the scriptures that teach how to leave the flesh and become one with the spirit of Christ thus as the process unfolds they overcome sin
Anyone ever hear a church preach how to overcome sin? I have not and I have gone near and far looking for one that I have yet to find let alone one that has seen results from teaching their flock how to overcome sin.
So if the Spirit of Christ abounds in the church why can't the church teach its followers how to overcome sin?
Funny thing happened (actually sad) when I was doing the spell check before hitting the submit button. I had misspelled warehouse back in the beginning of my post when descrbing RJ's place and the auto correction came back as "whorehouse"........... goes to show that you never can tell when a prophetic word will come forth
| 2010/12/3 11:32||Profile|
| Re: He married us and He is not mute......|
Wow Doug,,,[Lesserlight] what excellent ideas.
"The Spirit of Christ is the spirit of prophecy and if we have the Spirit of Christ we are to have the spirit of prophecy...... plain and simple"....Lesserlight
"All of the Bible is a prophecy starting in the Garden on through the Laws to the history of Israel. Add to it ministry of Jesus then that of the Apostles that all ends up in Revelations that is the revealing of Christ that nobody can understand without the spirit of prophecy that is Christ within you."
"Faith is not our faith in Jesus but the faith of Jesus in us that is the seed that is Christ that just happens to be the spirit of prophecy."..
[I would say that they both worked together, like a marriage..]
Wow! Your perspective is very fresh and deep, and yes, highly prophetic. I had to smile at the RJ experience.
| 2010/12/3 12:59|
| Re: |
Thank God for all youz guyz.
What was not stated here was sed by others.
Not only is there a greater confirmation of the Lord's dealings with me; but every poster in some way brought greater congruency on this thread.
The food shortage issue and death to many who profess Christ?
Five years back, the same dream repeatedly becoming more lucid each time it occured was dreamt until it manifested as a vision. . . where a very large garden was growing lush, just beginning to bear fruit. . . then from the East a hot wind began blowing until it was gale force, even bending fruit trees at the West end of the garden. No rain came so everything began withering and dying. At the middle of the garden, from the ground rose up men (sleightly stunted in stature) with sword slowly walking West severing most of the plants from their roots as they meandored West.
The gales continued to grow more intense. A very tall warrior (about 9 feet high) garbed in blue with unworldly light flashing from his attire rushed these men from behind and beginning from the south end of the line running towards the North cut them in two at their waists with a blade that was spinning as the hilt and the point remained drawn and in one position. 3/4th's through the line of these destroyers, they noticed what was happening and fell backward into the ground.
The warrior turned, looking into me with eyes of fire, he hollered, "YOU WILL DO WHAT!?" With the sword ( blade still spinning) in his hand he then pointed to the East (behind me) and threw the sword which was heard hitting the ground behind me.
Turning around, the sword was stuck point first in the ground where grew countless wilting fruitless gourd vines. Reaching down and drawing it to my face (fascinated with the spinning blade) water began welling up from the dirt where the sword was once embedded.
One gourd plant a hair's bredth where the sword had been implanted was still unwilted and bearing 8 healthy gourds. As the water flowed out of the ground, the gourd plant began vining among the wilted gourd plants and where it's vines spread (in all directions) the water flowed, and the wilted grew lush again.
Turning back to look to the warrior, he was directly behind me. Looking into me then through me, he said, "It's time to prune and prepare these for harvest.
He was handed back his sword and followed gathering the dead vines and scions he cut off.
i could not keep up, my back growing so sore and arms weak with the weight of the gathered cuttings.
Finally, i cried out to him that i could not keep up and asked for help.
He pointed to the North and then to the West, and looking, i saw many different people coming to help in the work.
He told me to give the cutting to them and just walk with him until he was finished . . . then this repetetive dream turned lucid vision ended abruptly every time.
In coming back to the here and now i would always hear Lamentations 3.22-33 echoing in my conscousness.Rev 19:
And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God: For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand. And again they said, Alleluia. And her smoke rose up for ever and ever. And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia. And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great. And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth. Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
v. 10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
Though i used to pray and pray for God to show the meaning about all this, He has chosen to show mw step by step as time passes the how and why of it all. This has kept me from a high-horsed attitude and ever walking dependent, (not to mention constantly recalling how more and more weak and sweaty this body become as the dream grew into a real-time vision). . .
it's only my imagination . . . right?
It's thought that Brother Tom really struck on something mentioning love in the maturing of prophecy, yet it's true with all the gifts and offices.
Without faith(fulness) nobody pleases God
howbeit this works by the love of Christ shed abroad in our hearts
-(Rom. 5.1-5). . .
expressed outwardly through our souls in the living
-(I Cor. 13.2, 11-12 / Jn. 14.15, 20-21, 23-24; 15.9-17<---[the joy of the Lord is our strength--> Neh. 8.8-10].
The above three things are written to show foundational support to the following thought:
Those who are mature as prophets MUST edify particularily those of like calling (if and when God says to). These are those who can identify with what others who have been called as prophets in a very personal way.
i don't know that our job is 'mature' them as this comes through walking with God.
We can encourage, exhort, and admonish
but ultimately our Great Shepherd is the one who says what should/will and what should/will not happen. If we are not obeying His voice in this, we are out of line.
Back in the early 80's, when the idea of "prophetic movement" was first heard touted, first thoughts were, 'where is that in the Bible?' What was observed only confirmed the scepticism here: ~calling 'predicting/seeing' prophecy,
~focus turning to satisfying the flesh through focus on the things of the world,
~falsehood becoming more and more frequent in these camps
~many proponents falling from grace through falling from faithfulness
~etc. . .
At this time, one night witnessing house to house, the team i was working together with saw God miraculously heal a woman's mangled foot instantly when hands were laid on her and she was prayed for. He told me His Spirit was grieved (when the direction of focus was seen to turn from Jesus Christ to the human tool in His hands) and He said to get away from them and do not return.
The pastor came to me a few days later asking why i was no longer being active in "the work of God." He said how 'OUR' church could grow, etc. if 'I' would use 'MY' gift(s) for the furtherance of his kingdom . . . but was it really God's kingdom that was being promoted or the phenomena?
You wonder why many mispredictions come and the gifts stop operating?
Is it really struggling to walk the straight and narrow
to glorify Christ
a matter of what's in it for me
and getting God to titilate the senses.
My pride did get the best of me eventually
and in 1985 i was taken through deaths door and brought back again phsically and mentally maimed
Total recovery was actually a growth into deep dependence, relying on God for everything imaginable, spanning the course of just over 20 years.
Many do not make it as prophets simply because of the ussues of submission to God and yeilding everything up to him, yet this could also be said of anyone who stumbles and falls.
The thing is, one truly in the Lord's hands will be raised up again and again and again and . . . he may even fall seven times, but he won't stay there.
Yes, we all need each other, but this is never where reliance can ever be set if we are to walk even as He walked.
Why don't we hear sisteren&bretheren talking about Jesus as the greatest prophet ever before both God and man?
Knowing this, something is really out of whack if we are not emulating His ministry.
Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you. Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men. Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
No response is expected.
For him who has ears to hear
let him hear what the Spirit is saying.
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus; Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house. For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house. For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God. And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after; But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
| 2010/12/3 19:55|
| Re: |
Anyone ever hear a church preach how to overcome sin? I have not and I have gone near and far looking for one that I have yet to find let alone one that has seen results from teaching their flock how to overcome sin.
Zac Poonen is the first person that I every heard teach on this specific subject.
Sadly, I've been saved for about 15 years and after hearing his teachings I honestly felt like I've been ripped off by 'church organizations'. Fifteen years of not hearing that I could actually be set free from the power of sin in my life. I'm not bitter at all about it in fact just the opposite, I'm extremely grateful that The Lord revealed this to me.
I've read countless books, heard people preach sermons that had NO revelation on being set free, stood in prayer lines, and I was struggling with anger and bitterness. No one told me that I could be totally set free from these conditions. Zac's teachings were like water in the middle of the desert for me. I struggled, and I worked, and I prayed, and I labored, (notice a recurring theme here?) and I was defeated.
Honestly, I just resigned to the fact that I was 'just that way, and there was no hope' but GOD was faithful, He's so wonderful, and He never gave up on me.
In the last 3 months I have noticed that He is taking the desire to gossip (I'm being very honest here) to hear gossip, and eat the fruit of gossip away from me.
Additionally, He is taking anger from my heart and helping me to relax. It's very surprising to me because in order to do this in me He has taught me to recognize His voice and 'not listen to another' heck I didn't even know how to recognize a fiery dart from the enemy so I was constantly being hit. Now I know by revelation that if it doesn't pass the Ephesians 4:8 test, it's from the enemy:
Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirableif anything is excellent or praiseworthythink about such things.
You are talking to someone who is 'being set free indeed' and I owe an incredible debt of gratitude to first Jesus (He was bruised (bled internally) for MY inequities) and second Zac Poonen for enduring the scorn that he has received and remaining faithful to God.
To HIM be the glory!
Bless you my brothers and sisters!
| 2010/12/3 20:16||Profile|
| Re: |
Anger is overcome by yeilding what we think are our own rights up to Godand recognizing that everything that happens in our lives comes from the hand of t.his King of glory to glorify you in the overcoming of our own selfish interests.
Bitterness is destroyed completely in forgiving others, even as Chrsit has forgiven us.
| 2010/12/3 22:33|
| Re: |
Anger is overcome by yeilding what we think are our own rights up to God and recognizing that everything that happens in our lives comes from the hand of t.his King of glory to glorify you in the overcoming of our own selfish interests.
That's the truth.
I realize that I didn't tell the rest of the story earlier, here's the BIG SECRET about overcoming anger, murder, the love of money and any other sin:
1) Confess it to God
2) Let Him take it from you
3) Resist temptation ('lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil')
When it is done you have nothing to glory about, He removes the desire. The victory belongs to the Lord!
It's simply amazing the way that the Holy Spirit will take it from you. I spent years managing fruit, and the Lord spent a few months ripping out the root (not to say that temptation isn't there).
| 2010/12/3 22:55||Profile|
| Re: |
Faith is not our faith in Jesus but the faith of Jesus in us that is the seed that is Christ
| 2010/12/3 23:01|