| Poster | Thread |
| | Re: | | Quote:
Hi,I agree with what your saying here except I would like to point out that their are alot of great preachers on this website and some of them believe you can loose your salvation and some dont.Its by no means clear cut.I dont know what the breakdown is.
In all fairness, there are many preachers that also have a love for their doctrine much more than they have a love for Scripture. The breakdown, if you will, really might not be as unclear as some might have you believe.
Consider a few of these, and read them in context.
1 Corinthians 15:1-2
Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, by which also you are saved, IF you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. (If makes it conditional)
Hebrews 6:4-6
For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, AND THEN HAVE FALLEN AWAY, it is impossible to RENEW THEM AGAIN to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. (How can one be renewed to something they never had, or something that they never fell away from in the first place?)
Romans 11:19-21
You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in." Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. FOR IF HE DID NOT SPARE THE NATURAL BRANCHES, HE WILL NOT SPARE YOU EITHER. (Spare them from what? He's writing to believers standing by faith. Paul says they can be broken off as well. From what?)
We will not be judged by what we're told by preachers on Sermon Index, or by Godly men with good intentions. We're going to be judged by the Word of God. It really is dangerous bro, to tell people struggling with any sort of sin, or making a lifestyle of sin with no victory, that it doesn't effect their salvation in the slightest.
Will we sin after salvation? Most probably.
Can we make a habitual lifestyle of sin? Sure, but we forfeit salvation to do so.
Too much of Scripture speaks against once saved, always saved, no matter what preachers, teachers, Christian brothers, or denominational statements of faith say to the contrary.
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|  2010/11/19 5:16 | | ginnyrose
Member
Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534
Mississippi
| | Re: | | Quote:
It's too bad Walmart does not have a "filter" for the checkout lanes.
Too bad there is no filter to filter out the people that shop there in varying stages of undress...
ginnyrose
_________________
Sandra Miller
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| | 2010/11/19 5:57 | Profile |
| | Re: | | My apologies in advance for the length of this post. I've been following it a bit and I'd like to make a comment here.
Quote:
In all fairness, there are many preachers that also have a love for their doctrine much more than they have a love for Scripture. The breakdown, if you will, really might not be as unclear as some might have you believe.....Too much of Scripture speaks against once saved, always saved, no matter what preachers, teachers, Christian brothers, or denominational statements of faith say to the contrary.
It's amazing to me, how much we always are ready to point the finger at the other Christian, the one who disagrees with our position, as being the one who doesn't have it right. We always are ready to claim that it is we that have the understanding of Scriptures and not the other man. We accuse others of having "doctrinal positions", not realizing that we to are speaking from a "doctrinal position" despite all our claims that we are guided by Scripture alone.
By focussing on the "many scriptures" that speak against once saved always saved, it is very possible to miss the "many scriptures" that speak of the believer being preserved and kept by the power of God. The fact that it is God that began a good work in us, and He is faithful to complete it. We must look at scripture as a whole, and realize there are somethings we cannot be dogmatic about. It is the same with predestination and free will. The bible teaches both, and to hold to the Scriptures that teach one aspect and ignore the other would cause us to begin to have "doctrinal positions", unknowingly, even if we claim not to have one.
I believe the message coming out of the Scriptures as a whole is not about weather a Christian can lose his salvation or not, so as to create Christians who serve God out of fear and dread of loosing salvation. Or weather a Christian can never loose his salvation so as to create Christians who become lazy and complacent because the believe they can never be lost,no matter what. But to plead with those who profess a faith in Christ, to individually "make their calling and election sure" that is to examine themselves "to see if they be in the faith", to ensure that they are truly in possession of so great a salvation.
There are some points in Scripture that cannot be held to dogmatically. We must submit to the teaching of Scripture as a whole and be ready to let go of our own doctrinal position, no matter how much we claim not to have one and think that Scripture alone backs us up and not the other man.
On the issue of pornography which is the original intent of this thread, I believe the same principle applies. The scripture teaches both.
The only thing that can deliver a man from an addiction, whatever it is, is the Spirit of Almighty God. There is no disputing this. It is Christ that has put to death the old man in His cross and rendered him powerless, so that we should no longer be under the power of sin. That is indisputable. It is by the Holy Spirit that we are able to walk in victory and have the life of Christ in us. Without a doubt this is the truth.
There is absolutely nothing wrong however, with someone using an internet filter to prevent them from coming across anything that will cause them to stumble. Just because I have been made free from sin, does not make me immune to temptation or make it so that I can never again stumble. Let he that thinketh he standeth take head lest he fall. To trust in internet filters to deliver you from your sin, would not be correct, and I don't think that is what the original poster was suggesting. But using a filter to help you to shun the very appearance of evil is a very good idea and I believe scripturally sound.
The bible teaches us that it is God that delivers us from the power of sin. It is He that has made it so that those who trust in Christ do not have to be under the bondage of sin. The bible also teaches that we should keep ourselves pure by any means necessary. "If thy right hand offendeth thee, cut it off". So filters are a good idea for the weak brother. The scriptures teach both.
On the issue of pornography addiction not being dealt with from the pulpit. The Lord leads me to the book of Ezra. Where after the Lord had granted them deliverance, the people were once again entangled with intermarriage with the nations around them, the very thing for which they were sent into captivity. Ezra's response to the sin in Israel in Ezra 9:1-15 was to fall down before God and weep and be broken for the sin and include himself in the transgression. Even if we did start to hear it being spoken of from the pulpit, I think there will only be a change when the pulpit becomes broken for the sin in the camp as Ezra was. It was the same with Daniel in Daniel chapter 9. In Daniel's prayer of repentance he included himself in the sin of Israel with "by prayer and supplications, with fasting, and sackcloth, and ashes:". Despite the fact that Daniel was of impeccable character. God help us to be broken for the sin in the camp, and include ourselves in the sin.
Thank you for raising this issue. Reading the responses and seeing the trend of the discussion, reinforces in me now more than ever, our need to be broken before God so that He send revival in these last days. |
| | 2010/11/19 7:48 | | staff
Member
Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 2227
| | Re: More than one view on Sin And Salvation | | (In all fairness, there are many preachers that also have a love for their doctrine much more than they have a love for Scripture. The breakdown, if you will, really might not be as unclear as some might have you believe.)
Hi,
On any other threads on Salvation and you will see that it is not clear cut like you put across and preachers will show scripture to show that once saved always saved.We were saved,we are being saved and ultimately when we die or raptured we will be saved.It is equally dangerous to tell people they are going to hell when they are saved.Of course their are consequences of sin.Our Judgement is one of reward not of salvation.No matter which way you put it either grace or works gets us to heaven and we know it is not works.When Jesus died on the cross all my sins and yours were in the future.
This is not a thread on salvation but a very very useful thread on sin.I just wanted to point out that not all scholars of the word of god go with once saved always saved like you and show scripture to support that side and some schlolars of the word of god believe you cant loose your salvation and show scriptures to support that view.You put your side accross as if their is no other view,
Preaching Judgement is really important though and works best with the unsaved and not scaring the life out of the saved in my opinion,Staff
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| | 2010/11/19 8:17 | Profile |
| | | 2010/11/19 8:42 | | davym
Member
Joined: 2007/5/22
Posts: 326
| | Re: | |
Quote:
Even if we did start to hear it being spoken of from the pulpit, I think there will only be a change when the pulpit becomes broken for the sin in the camp as Ezra was.
Amen
_________________
David
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| | 2010/11/19 9:13 | Profile |
| | How many preachers have dealt with this | | I love the doctrinal interplay but I try to bring the connversation back to whether preachers are opening the subject of internet porn to their congregations. Knowing that statistically that 50% of the men in church who use the net, 40% of the pastors and 28% of the church going women are using porn.
As pastors are we fiddling while families, mariages, careers and ministries are being destroyed by the tens of thousands or will we talk about it and provide some real solutions including accountability groups and sermons from the pulpit. If we can talk about abortion and provide forgiveness in the church why can't we deal with this subject and offer the same unconditional love while bringing direction? Come on guys
www.safeeyes.com
www.wisechoice.net a no over-ride version of safeeyes
www.hedgebuilders.com
www.xxxchurch.com
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| | 2010/11/19 9:39 | |
| | How many of you have filters | | How many of you have filters on your computers at home and the computers in the church??? If not do it today. Guard yourselves and those around you.
Shepherds guard the sheep and the wise shepherd knows he is vulnerable himself...
www.safeeyes.com
www.wisechoice.net a no over-ride version of safeeyes
www.hedgebuilders.com
www.xxxchurch.com
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| | 2010/11/19 10:01 | | Areadymind
Member
Joined: 2009/5/15
Posts: 1042
Pacific Ocean
| | Re: How many of you have filters | | I have one, and I tell others too get them as well.
_________________
Jeremiah Dusenberry
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| | 2010/11/19 10:21 | Profile |
| | Re: Just provided some Scripture | | Quote:
Just provided some Scripture. You can take it or leave it. Either way.
Yes this technique is often used. What we actually do though, is to provide Scripture that supports our position, and what we are asking in reality is that people "take or leave" our position. Because we are so confident that Scripture supports our position and not the other believer. I think we all can accept the Scriptures that were provided without having to accept someone's position. As staff said it is not as "clear cut" as we would like to tell ourselves, and for the 10 Scriptures that seem to support one position, anyone can find 11 to support the other.
If we are truly interested in the truth, we would look at all Scripture not just the ones that support our individual positions. If we don't we would in fact be guilty of the very thing we accuse others of without realizing it. When we approach scripture with a biased position, we will readily see all the Scriptures that propose to support that position. If we approach Scripture, emptying ourselves of any biases, we will get but a glimpse of God's whole counsel and realize that
"Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love." 1 Corinthians 13:12-13
"Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present [you] faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy," Jude 1:24
Lord open our eyes and help us to see, that our eyes will not be fully open until we see you face to face.
Quote:
As pastors are we fiddling while families, mariages, careers and ministries are being destroyed by the tens of thousands or will we talk about it and provide some real solutions including accountability groups and sermons from the pulpit.
Yes Ned, I am in full agreement with you that these things can and need be implemented. I do believe though that as a pre-requisite to these we must be broken about the sin in the church and turn to God in repentance. Both on an individual and a corporate basis. Then we can use these methods of support. Ezra and Daniel and other great men of God in the bible prayed "We have sinned".
Filters are an extremely useful tool, especially in a home where in addition to protecting themselves, parents are seeking to protect their children. I fully support it.
Lord Jesus look upon us in mercy. |
| | 2010/11/19 10:50 | |
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