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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Why True Protestants REJECT the pope!

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 Re:

Quote:
Let's not let the thread become one of self-righteousness on Christians getting it right and Catholics being wrong or unless you have done as much good as this person, you have no right to judge him etc.



This is about scripture being right... and scripture is very clear. And having correct theology CAN lead to self-righteousness, but I get really irritated when people accuse Christians who are confident in what they believe of being "self righteous".

To think that it's wrong for Christians to be confident that the Bible is true and clear and understandable is nothing more than post-modern mumbo jumbo.

Notice I said "I take no pleasure in saying that"... and that is the truth. Who in their right mind could?

(I'll probably get accused of being mad at you, but trust me I am not. I am passionate about the truth and about the Word of God. I think if a man is not passionate about the Word of God then he needs to examine his heart to see if he is truly in the faith.)

 2010/11/16 8:43
learn
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Joined: 2008/7/24
Posts: 613


 Re:

I have no problem with you being confident. But bear in mind when we are trying to convince the other, our confidence if we are not able to articulate it well and with compassion and respect to the other party can put people off, give them the impression that we are self-righteous and make them close their ears to us. And instead of hoping that our effors will result in them being converted will only turn them further away from what we are trying to convey. That's why I wanted to post the verse in the bible which teaches us how we should go about doing such things but I cannot remember what verse it is. If I can recall it, I will post the verse.


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geraldine

 2010/11/16 9:19Profile









 Re: Why True Protestants REJECT the pope!


Hi learn

Quote:
I wanted to post the verse in the bible which teaches us how we should go about doing such things

Was it here?

2 Timothy 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

 2010/11/16 9:37









 brethern

believe me, i feel tremendously grieved that i even started this thread.

i still feel rome is a hellish prison, the system of rome, but sometimes, one is best advised to keep their tongues in their mouth, let God be God, and He will take care of all unrighteousness and sinfulness, and i pray i dont get hammered too bad by Him at the Bema Seat.

so i beg you all..........just let love cover everything, cozs i messed up, neil

 2010/11/16 10:10









 Re: brethern

Maybe this is why Jesus said in Matthew 13 to let the wheat and tares grow up together until the end of the time. Because in pulling up the tares, you may destroy some wheat, also.

 2010/11/16 10:16









 yes........

Quote:

Maybe this is why Jesus said in Matthew 13 to let the wheat and tares grow up together until the end of the time. Because in pulling up the tares, you may destroy some wheat, also.



a very good word, Pilgrim. Praise the Name of the Lord, i learned something today. Thank you brother.

neil

 2010/11/16 10:38
learn
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Joined: 2008/7/24
Posts: 613


 Re:

HomeSkoolDad, for clarification, my previous post and the post below was on us persuading the Catholics and not between us in case I wasn't clear enough. Have no problems with you or your post.

Edit:
Alive-to-God, thanks, yes that's the verses although I was more focused on verses 25-26 but 24 is also good.

2 Timothy 2:24-26
And the Lord's servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth,and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.

I believe that's the way we should go about it when we are faced with people that we believe likely to be lost. At least, this is how I plan to do it.


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geraldine

 2010/11/16 12:06Profile









 Re: yes........

Natan4Jesus,

You seem like a long lost friend to me. Have we met before?

 2010/11/16 13:07
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re: Have a heart for Catholics!

Neil said:
believe me, i feel tremendously grieved that i even started this thread.

I hear you, brother!
Yet good can come from this too. We can learn more about ourselves. At least, I have found that I learn about myself when I ponder over what I have said or wrote. And it’s not always pretty, after the fact. I’ve been there – criticizing the RC church, (I grew up Protestant) There indeed are plenty of reasons to do so, and many Catholics would agree with me. But then there are plenty of reasons to condemn the evangelicalism too!

For most of my life I assumed that the Pope was the Antichrist and bound for hell – because that’s all I ever heard. Recently I read Pope John Paul II’s “Theology of the Body”. Clearly that is a stellar work – a light in the Catholic Church. You must read it before you say anything about this man. That work shows a huge progress in understanding of celibacy, the sanctity of the body, the sanctity of marital fidelity, the cross, chastity outside marriage, the symbolism of Christ and the church through marriage, etc. This literary work is closer to scripture than some of our evangelical writers have produced.

Our calling is not to put people in camps. It’s not about who’s in the right and who’s in the wrong. We are called to be a light in the darkness. But we are not a light when we are condemning with broad sweeping accusations. Then we are in the wrong. And that is exactly what, historically, has been the cause of so many religious wars.

Not long ago I was in Toronto on a Sunday. I prayed that God would lead me to a church. The Spirit led me, of all places to a Catholic church! I was totally amazed. As they sang, “Refiner's Fire” with a quality, humble praise team, the Spirit touched me to the core. The homily was also truly of God. It was a carefully thought out message, and also was supported in the rest of the service – totally Scripture and Christ centered. There were no icons or statues in the church, interestingly. But the presence of the Lord was there - through the priests.

My attendance at that mass, I believe was an act of repentance – called by God. It was not about needing to agree or disagree - but about learning to allow God to be God – anywhere.

Diane


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Diane

 2010/11/21 21:30Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re: More thoughts

More thoughts
This is just a general reflection about the way we handle the perceived wrong of others –and trust me, I am “preaching” here to myself!

Whenever I address another person’s religious convictions, I am really treading on THEIR holy ground. I suppose it would be like having a herd of pigs trampling in one Sunday morning onto my religious space – just when I am being comforted and blessed. It shouldn’t surprise me when I solicit an antagonistic response, in my attempt to remove their “speck” (or rather, gouge at it). My accusations trigger within them, an urge to defend themselves. Don’t we do tend to do that when we feel cornered by someone’s (perceived) criticism of ourselves? But that is not the path to the cross. It is the path to divisiveness. We drive them AWAY from the cross, rather than towards it. And we fail to display the fruit of the Spirit - the very means which we are to draw others to Christ.

Here is where, I think, we would do well to keep God’s purposes for humankind in mind – such as John 3:16, and many others. We are NOT called to pronounce swathing judgments against others – because when we do, some arrows of judgment will come back at us (Rom.2) This is not to say that we set aside the need for discernment. It’s just that our role is NOT to attack others, or put them on the defensive (which inevitably invites their arrows or “bombs” back on us).

One way, I believe, that we can break down this huge wall of division between Protestants and Catholics is by examining our common tendencies and our common need. Let’s face it, after the Reformation, many of the “reformed” churches looked almost as Catholic than before – at least in the way they gravitated towards “old wine skin” religion. That is a human tendency, and none of us are exempt, regardless of which denominational ‘camp’ we are in.

I would like God to break down my own need to be “right”, my penchant to stand just a bit higher than the other guy and look down on that person as lesser than me. May God help me remember that I am a sinner too – and made from the same “stuff” that arose in the Garden of Eden. I also bit into that fruit, and I too would like to use knowledge of good and evil to elevate myself over others. In that sense, I am a stumbling block in their path to the cross. I am not hospitable to them, and I don't show them the nature of God.

I need God just as much as the other person does - every moment of every day.


Diane






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Diane

 2010/11/22 7:56Profile





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