i was wrong, i should NOT have even posted this.

not even put this video up, if its going to lead to contention and argument, i myself, just felt such a disturbance at what was, to me, clearly a case of demonic possession.

Snuf, i hear you, bro. Iceman, new brother here, beleive me i find the whole thing reprehensible.

i was a fool for putting this up, if a moderator reads this, just lock the thread, i was a fool.

Really? The scriptures given don't provide much proof???

Perhaps you should look up the work "necromancer".

Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

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Bill

Hi iceman,

I know what you're saying, but I know what Snuf is saying also. Jesus did speak with Moses and Elijah before His death, and Saul did speak with Samuel through the witch of Endor. Note: Saul did not 'see' Samuel; the witch did.

I'm not suggesting the Bible is wrong when it prohibits necromancy (sexual intercourse with dead bodies), divination, witchcraft and wizardry, and every kind of spiritualistic activity (under the Old Covenant), but:

could you please say some more about how to divide the experience of Jesus and Saul from that, and put the prohibitions into the New Covenant perspective?

What was the purpose of the Mount of Transfiguration? Was it for Jesus, or for Moses and Elijah, for the disciples, or for all of them? How, or, does this differ from Samuel's appearance to the witch?

Brother Neil,

I haven't watched the video. I don't do video because I find stuff stuck in my visual memory for years and years to come.

Hearing what you say about should not have posted this thread, this discussion may yet be quite biblical and edifying. But, I would like humbly to suggest you may be able to alter the thread's title somehow, so it elucidates the specific concern you had, more than the concern's effect on you. You could, also, consider deleting the video link. Of course, only as you feel guided by the Lord, brother.

haven't watched any of todd's stuff recently. The last ones i saw he was knocking this guy out with a devastating knee lift. He says to the guy "you want it? you want it?" "you want this anointing?" then he knees the guy and said it was the holy ghost that told him to do so(some how i struggle to believe this). Then some demon possessed lady was proper-lying about his ministry and was shaking her head so violently i had to check to make sure i hadnt youtubed exorcism by mistake. Then he started talking about some angel of investment banking.

The point is after a while (several months of rib cracking laughter) i had to stop because i began to become really saddened. I feel this horrible feeling of sadness when i watch false prophets on the TV lead so many to hell. I have watched creflo dollar totally destroy every principle of sound hermeneutics in order to justify greed over contentment (and yes at first i laughed as i didnt think he could actually believe what he was preaching. But he actual does. even heard him say something about machine guns and executing ) but eventually that too began to grieve me.

I watched this video, or most of it....after a while I started feeling a tad bit ill for watching it...Bentley is so vile, so wicked that the only video of him I would ever recommend is one where he repudiates his former lifestyle, apologizes to the world for having led people astray and calls people to repentance. And I have not seen this anywhere on YouTube.

Talking to the dead. The OT prohibited this practice and the LORD never reversed his disdain for it. What Jesus did in talking with Moses and Elijah was a supernatural event, one that he told his disciples to not tell any man until after he was risen from the dead.

Talking to the dead, dreams, visions are all tools the Enemy uses to deceive people. DO NOT fall for it! Read Ezekiel - it was popular back then and obviously is so today. God has plenty of harsh words for those people and rightly so because these guys draw people away from Him!

We are so fascinated with the supernatural. Nothing wrong with that but unless you have the filter of the Holy Spirit operating in your spirit/heart you will not be able to discern the source of these manifestations.

If you have a loved one pass off the scene, you become vulnerable to this temptation. A couple years after Regina died (our 25 YO DD), I got to missing her so bad and wished so much I could talk with her. The idea of talking to her via unBiblical means rose up and presented itself to me. I said "NO!" A week or so later was her birthday and someone gave me some flowers in commemoration of this event and wrote a message on it as though it was from her. I got very upset! I know the sender meant no harm but coming right on the heels of this other temptation did not sit well with me.

One does not play with the devil without suffering severe spiritual harm. If the info you want is not forthcoming, just trust the LORD. Scripture tells us he will supply everything we need...since this is the case, why are you hankering for what he has not given you? The devil cannot give what is eternally beneficial for you....

ginnyrose

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Sandra Miller

Neil, I am not trying to hijack your thread, but maybe we could salvage something from this thread, that might Bless us. My question would be, what makes ministers/people resort to being involved in events like this? I have old southern Baptist roots, so I am clueless. My guess would be the Ministers as I said in my earlier post, must just be bored with God's word, in others words, they are not satisfied with just teaching folks scripture,they look deeper for self recognition for whatever reasons. Now for the people that attend these events, I feel they are deceived, maybe even confused with Gods word, so they may attend these events maybe for clarity, and if so, some may leave saying this guys is nuts, and some may stay, thinking they have received some kind of vision. What is your take on why ministers/people resort to these events?

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Bill

you are right...i do believe i'm going to wipe the video link, wise suggestion that.

and please know, that i always love you in the Lord, your brother, neil

beloved brother, you asked me:

"What is your take on why ministers/people resort to these events?"

can i say this? i fear God, revere God, and i never want to go any where near the unpardonable sin, we know what that is, God forbid we should do that.

may i say two things?

when God took mercy on me, and i began to follow Jesus, He led me to a Pentecostal Church. it was NOT "Vineyard". God has kept me from the "Vineyard", that is not a judgement, it is a fact.

i was led to an AoG Church, where the pastor, a good Godly man became my mentor, my brother, and praise God, a close dear valued friend.

I believe with all my soul in the Sovereignity of God, in the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, that leads to the Deeper Life, and to giving of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit.

However, i have a few problems with what the AoG outlines as "initial evidence" of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, and that is the issue of what is known as "tongues".

there are two words that would indicate what is termed as "tongues"..."glossolalia"---unknown languages and "xenolalia"---known languages, which the hearer is not a native of. As i read in Acts, on the Day of Pentecost, what was heard was "xenolalia", and the masses heard these 120 prophesying in, were many languages from foreign lands, praising God.....which was a wonderful miracle...powerful.

in my days at that congregation, i would hear many instances of glossolalia, which i had no problem with, because my spirit agreed with the Holy Spirit, that Jesus was being praised. But a few times, i felt that many dear saints were, God forgive me for writing this, but i felt that they were like children who didnt want to "left out of the action".

i never breathed a word of this to anyone, not because of cowardice, but who am i to nay say? because we all work out our OWN Salvation with fear and trembling..amen?

i have touched on this topic with my mentor, meaning that tenet of the "what we believe" in the codiciles of the AoG denomination.....ie, 'what if initial evidence is a follower of Jesus being filled with impossible love?'...or being filled with an irresitable urge to serve, servanthood?

but, as i read and see it, there is little wiggle room is this issue, so my heart is that God will reveal what must be revealed.
Some Pentecostal denominations have taken the Baptism of the Holy Spirit to some pretty whacked out extremes, and i will not be along for that "ride"....for example, "holy drunkeness"...or "holy laughter".

i'm all for Joy IN the Lord, i feel that Joy this very second, but my heart leads me towards begging God to give me a Baptism of Tears, a weeping ministry.

In these days?...looking all around us, at the darkness and depravity, who could help but NOT be weeping between the porch and the altar?

as the Lord leads me, its away from denominations....not 'anti" denomination, but fellowship with any Body of Believers, who confess Jesus and Him Crucified, Raised from the dead, Resurrected!

as far as some of these who resort to such "acts", i was at one time, an actor,professional...paid money to act, i can spot an "act", or an "actor"...a mile away, and some of these are INDEED, actors.....its an act, its designed to entertain people, not to worship God.

thats why you always see the name of the man, or woman who constructs these "acts" highlighted, above the Name of Jesus....thats the tip off.

if one investigates revival, you'll always notice that the true worms of Christ, always recede into anonymity, they are happy to do so, they are quick to point the Way to Jesus, and recede. Evan Roberts, Duncan Campbell, William Seymour...just a few examples. They eschew publicity, spurn it. they dont covet money, they covet souls being brought to a saving Knowledge of Jesus Christ......AND they stick to the Word, and keep to the Standard, no extra-canonical, extra-Biblical foolishness.

these "actors" with their "acts", they resort to their antics, because they love money, they love public acclaim, but in the end, those ill-advised actors, are brought into the Light and exposed. May God have mercy on them, and may God lead the "helpless and harassed" into the true "sheepfold", and away from these sad spectacles.

The one man, even though he is now with the Lord, who has served as a human model for me, via his 30 some odd sermons here on SI, is Duncan Campbell. i urge my brothers and sisters to give keen investigation into his ministry and words.

much love in Jesus, neil