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 Re:

The adversary is pleased.
The original poster knew exactly what he/she was
doing when they started this useless thread and it was certainly not
inspired of God.

 2010/10/8 20:24
NewCovWinDor
Member



Joined: 2007/2/10
Posts: 72
A Little Town In Iowa

 Re:

Very true, Rev.

"He who slings mud loses ground."


_________________
Ryan G.

 2010/10/8 20:35Profile









 Re:

Quote:
If Warren is really false, then its only right that his sermon should not be here.



What if I thought that Leonard Ravenhill was false, does that mean that he shouldn't be in the archives?

My opinion is not the reason why these sermons make it here on SI. Even if I suspected him to be false and told Greg about it, he would want proof that the man was false, not my superstitions and theories. And this is what Chris has been asking people to do, but we are acting like extreme religious people with a vengeance to destroy anyone who disagrees with our opinion or what websites contribute to bashing Rick Warren.

Greg heard a message by Rick Warren that he thought was very good and that message made it here on HIS SITE. It was one message. Could it be that God used Rick Warren to preach this one message that was good? We quote Balaam's ass all the time, can't God speak through Rick Warren?

You guys are going to have to learn to love this man, because if he is an enemy of the cross, Jesus commands us to love our enemies.

That means that if we love our enemies, we are NOT going to talk about him, run him down and speak slander behind his back.

As for the duty of exposing people. Jesus said to leave those folks alone and to follow Him. But we don't like that.

Luke 9:49 And John answered and said, Master, we saw Rick Warren casting out devils in thy name; and we forbade him, because he followeth not with us.

Luke 9:50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.

 2010/10/8 20:39
mguldner
Member



Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1860
Kansas

 Re:

When will the madness stop? That is my only question!


_________________
Matthew Guldner

 2010/10/8 20:44Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re: they marvelled at the graciousness of His speech

Hi everyone,


"The major problem here is that Rick Warren refuses to engage his critics or defend his ideas. Unless he is willing to argue for, say, his handling of Scripture, there can be no development of the critics’ understanding of his position.

This is not the fault of the critics, who have shown themselves to be very willing to engage; but rather of Warren, who refuses to enter into the conversation.

If he is misunderstood, let him answer his critics...'



I believe this is one of the most reasonable attitudes within the whole of the controversy regarding this man.


Perosonal vilification of public figures should be avoided at all costs. It is a great breach of spirit and a deadly sin.


But those that inisist that teacher's and preacher's words and messages should be tested(especially when they figure so prominently as this man does) are excercising good sense to do so and do show a healthy regard for truth and soundness that becomes the Gospel and its LORD.

And this qoute above I think is especially reasonable, because of the pattern of the LORD Himself, Who, nearly as often as He was challenged by His critics, answered them, and in so doing not only proved the soundness of His speech but also gave us so many remarkable revelations of truth.


Being challenged by men as to the soundness of our words is not(generally) a time for silence.

It is THE OPPORTUNITY to shine.

That is, if we and our message, have come from God.


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2010/10/8 20:49Profile









 Re:

Quote:
The original poster knew exactly what he/she was doing when they started this useless thread and it was certainly not inspired of God.

Oh I beg to differ. This thread has done a lot of good. It tells me how childish we are and that we have not learned Christ at all. We have a lot of knowledge, but we lack understanding and a whole lot of love.

Rick Warren is my Brother in Christ. Until I hear from the Lord otherwise, he will remain.

Because if we all checked our theology, it proves one thing, it only loves those that love us. Which means that we do not have the love of God which we so claim. And since we are not in that position to speak from a love stand point (for God is love) we are not eligible to judge anyone.

How do I know that our love is bias? We only gather around people that agree with us. But Jesus did the opposite. He hung around the whores beggars and thieves, even around those that were trying to kill Him.

But as soon as someone touches our theology, watch out.

If that is love, I don't want nothing to do with it.

 2010/10/8 20:51
learn
Member



Joined: 2008/7/24
Posts: 613


 Re:

Snufalapagus, any false pastor's sermons should never be on a Christian website. I don't think that people would disagree on this.


The debate is whether one believes the person is a true Christian or not. The decision whether to put up in this case Warren's sermon is certainly up to Greg (as he is the admin here).

I believe you are creating an arguement out of nothing. Notice that my sentence did not mention my opinion/belief. I just said 'if' and I didn't say that 'he is' or that 'because I believe, then it has to be done...'.

Pls do not read into things where there is nothing in it. Thanks.

Double edit as it may not be clear.
Edit to add: ok, on re-reading this, I can see why you thought what you've written. But no, I wasn't thinking of that. I am just stating that any false pastors sermons should not be on a Christian website. (in this case since we are talking about Warren, I mentioned his name--but notice I said 'if' and not that he is). That's all. Not saying that person is false or not or that we have a right to decide which sermon will be put up. I've been in forums long enough to know that the decision is ultimately up to the admin.


_________________
geraldine

 2010/10/8 21:01Profile









 Re:

Quote:
I believe you are creating an argument out of nothing.

Ah some truth.

Well when you think about it, that's exactly what the Rick Warren bashers are doing, creating an argument without proof.

Quote:
any false pastor's sermons should never be on a Christian website. I don't think that people would disagree on this.

Has anyone considered that Greg might have prayed about putting this on here? I mean the man is not stupid. He's in touch with men of God who are praying for revival, read up on the puritans etc.., and sat with Carter Conlon, immersed himself in Leonard Ravenhills sermons. Has anyone considered that a mind like that is not easily swayed to someone like Rick Warren? Yet, here he is.

I am not saying that brother Greg can't be swayed, but for someone who is engulfed in the nature of revival like he is wouldn't be so easily given to putting a Rick Warren sermon on SI. But he does, which tells me that God is doing something and I want to be given to hearing what the Spirit is saying not my doctrinal position. The Pharisees wanted Jesus to agree with their position, but Jesus had a word for them every time, "But I say unto you".

 2010/10/8 21:12









 Re:

Quote:
Greg heard a message by Rick Warren that he thought was very good and that message made it here on HIS SITE. It was one message. Could it be that God used Rick Warren to preach this one message that was good? We quote Balaam's ass all the time, can't God speak through Rick Warren?



It is written, "A little leaven leavens the whole lump". Also, "Jas 3:12 Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh." Even though the message by Warren may be good and Scriptural, he is still a danger to be around. For example, recently I ran into a good message by Joel Osteen (the only useful message of his that I've ever heard) about pork and shellfish. However, I wouldn't endorse the message, albeit true, so it won't become a stumbling block to others who know Osteen to be a false teacher, or worse--to expose young and unstable souls to the heresies of Joel.

Quote:
You guys are going to have to learn to love this man, because if he is an enemy of the cross, Jesus commands us to love our enemies.




Jesus commands us to love OUR (personal) enemies, who hate US:

Luk 6:27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
Luk 6:28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.

When we have enemies and haters of God, however, things are different. Consider the words of King David:

Psa 139:20 For they speak against thee wickedly, and THINE ENEMIES take thy name in vain.
Psa 139:21 Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee?
Psa 139:22 I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.

Clearly, we have no obligation to love men as Warren. For example, here is how Paul treated a false prophet (described in the book of Acts):

Act 13:6 And when they had gone through the isle unto Paphos, they found a certain sorcerer, a false prophet, a Jew, whose name was Barjesus:
Act 13:7 Which was with the deputy of the country, Sergius Paulus, a prudent man; who called for Barnabas and Saul, and desired to hear the word of God.
Act 13:8 But Elymas the sorcerer (for so is his name by interpretation) withstood them, seeking to turn away the deputy from the faith.
Act 13:9 Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him,
Act 13:10 And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?

John the Baptist wasn't very "loving" of the Pharisees either, when he saw them by the Jordan:

Mat 3:5 Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan,
Mat 3:6 And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.
Mat 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

The Lord Himself commended the church at Ephesus because "how thou canst not bear them which are evil":

Rev 2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

Quote:
That means that if we love our enemies, we are NOT going to talk about him, run him down and speak slander behind his back. As for the duty of exposing people. Jesus said to leave those folks alone and to follow Him. But we don't like that.



You are off again. This is not OUR enemy. This is a false teacher, a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Act 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Act 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
Act 20:31 Therefore watch, and remember, that __by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears__.

Was Paul "talking about them, running them down and speaking slander behind these people's back"?

Quote:
As for the duty of exposing people. Jesus said to leave those folks alone and to follow Him. But we don't like that.



Not so. You need to test all the things which you have learned in light of Scripture because what you are preaching here is not sound doctrine. It is written:

Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather REPROVE them.

When false teachers and false doctrines try to infiltrate the church, they must be exposed and reproved quickly, lest they take root in the congregation. This is part of following Jesus, part of good stewardship over the flock.

The apostle Paul writes to the Romans:

Rom 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, MARK them which cause divisions and offences __contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned__; and AVOID them.
Rom 16:18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

So Christians have a duty to MARK, and, after they have marked them, to AVOID the false teachers. Not to close their eyes to false doctrines being promulgated in the church.

Quote:
Luke 9:49 And John answered and said, Master, we saw Rick Warren casting out devils in thy name; and we forbade him, because he followeth not with us. Luke 9:50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for



Again your analogy fails. Rick Warren is casting out no devils in the Lord's name; rather he is binding souls with his false gospel (i.e. he is an agent of bondage, not deliverance.)

P.S. ChrisJD has made some good points.

 2010/10/8 21:28
StarofG0D
Member



Joined: 2007/10/28
Posts: 1232
United States

 Re:

--nevermind


_________________
Michelle

 2010/10/8 21:34Profile





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