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 Re:

Christianity is the hardest thing in the world. It is also the most confusing thing.

I don't have faith like Abraham when he was willing to sacrifice Isaac. And personally I think God was being very mean for wanting Abe to have that kind of faith.

It feels like God is messing with our head and wanting us to have faith in impossible situations just for His kicks. I'm sick of living by faith and having nothing happen and basically committing a slow and painful social/financial suicide for His sake. After decades of following Him, He doesn't even tell me why He puts me through all this suffering.

I can take the suffering but I can't take Him not telling me why I suffer. He could've told me what was going to happen like a good parent would but He knew the traps in my life and let them happen and SAID NOTHING ABOUT THEM.

I started this thread because I thought maybe God was mad at me and that is why God never says a word but I follow God way more than other people. It's not that I'm self righteous but I have always sought God and sacrificed for Him(i know this because I bore social/financial consequences for His sake and this is why I'm so hurt and angry)but now I'm older and wiser and I don't feel like suffering anymore.

I CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE.

I can't stand how messed up the modern church is. (Excuse my language, it is only said to express the level of frustration) The church is so hypocritical and when you say anything, you are shut down and socially outcasted. And I'm saying this because we are dying and if this keeps happening, we are headed straight for Hell. The church is for the pleasure of people, not God(humanism). NO ONE CARES. NO ONE LOVES GOD OR HIS PEOPLE. IT'S SURFACEY.
THERE IS NO TRANSPARENCY, NO ACCOUNTABILITY, NO REPENTANCE AND MORE IMPORTANTLY NO LOVE.

For example, everyone is affected by lust, porn, etc but it is never talked about at church. There is a stat that says 50% pastors watch porn but at church the underlying message is that if you suffer from watching porn, you are weak and a loser because supposedly lust is SO EASY TO OVERCOME.

Was it so EASY to overcome for David when he saw Batsheeba? This is a man after God's own heart. NO. Lust is one of the most powerful sin. Yet all we do at church is pretend we're perfect on the outside and yet don't fight this sin. If we even bring up this subject, we are ostracized.

I tell you what. Satan has a good system set up at church. We are perfect on the outside like the Pharisees and we continue to sin because we don't know how to fight sin. It is socially unacceptable to talk about sin. So we all live this life alone and not as a community. So at church, the underlying message is to be more fake. It's just like this world.

Tiger Woods did not mess up by sleeping around with countless women. He messed up because he got CAUGHT. So the rule is do whatever evil you like, just don't get caught but you have to maintain that CLEAN IMAGE. That is key.

Where have I seen this before? hmmmm. oh yeah.... at all the churches I've been to. My best friend said this in college when I was frustrated with the same things as I am now. "There is no difference between chrisitans and non-christians..... none."

I'm sick of standing up for the truth and getting my face bashed in. Losing friends, losing girlfriends, being ostracized. And most of all, I feel abandoned by God. He doesn't say anything. He just says go in there and get your face bashed in or you are going to hell.

 2010/11/16 15:01









 Re: How do you know God is pleased with you?

Quote:
I tell you what. Satan has a good system set up at church. We are perfect on the outside like the Pharisees and we continue to sin because we don't know how to fight sin. It is socially unacceptable to talk about sin. So we all live this life alone and not as a community. So at church, the underlying message is to be more fake. It's just like this world.

It's called hypocrisy.

Or, it's because the whole gospel is not being preached in such a way that the individuals who do actually attend (your) church, can take their rubbish to the cross and leave it there, while true worship is setting them free to do so, on a weekly basis. We ALL need our feet washed.


Does it matter which sins people are struggling with? Probably it does, because although there is a universal spiritual answer, the practical outworking of being dead to sin, looks very different from individual to individual and often there are differences of circumstances which mean no two people in their situations are identical.

It seems to me that your 'righteous' spirit is being 'vexed' by the evil around you. Isn't this something like 'the contradiction of sinners' which Christ endured? (Heb 12:4) Even, when we obey Him, are we not still unprofitable servants?

You said 'we don't know how to fight sin', but the Bible tells us to reckon ourselves dead. I think you have a point, though, that there is a continuous war of attrition against the saints in this generation, which must not overcome us with self-pity.

Weary as we may feel with well-doing, we must see 'well-doing' as a major part of being followers of Christ.

Heb 13:12 Therefore Jesus also, that He might sanctify the people with His own blood, suffered outside the gate. 13 Therefore let us go forth to Him, outside the camp, bearing His reproach. 14 For here we have no continuing city, but we seek the one to come. 15 Therefore by Him let us continually offer the sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the fruit of [our] lips, giving thanks to His name. 16 But do not forget to do good and to share, for with such sacrifices God is well pleased. 17 Obey those who rule over you, and be submissive, for they watch out for your souls, as those who must give account. Let them do so with joy and not with grief, for that would be unprofitable for you.


We are all temptable, but this is not in itself a manifestation of sin. Only yielding to temptation is sin. The resisting of temptation may be a very messy business, but not only must we prove to ourselves where our heart is, but also to God, and those who watch to see how we show creation that we are sons of God.

In respect to these matters, I have a small number of verses which have brought me through many battles, not all of which I won at first. They help me to galvanise my mind into an attitude of believing that God believes His word, and will keep it in my experience, if I just hang on to them (Him).

I could share them if you like, but it's more important that you yourself find meaning in being faithful to God's word, and make your own complaints to Him, and let Him speak to you in the ways HE knows will be most help to you.


If you're looking for a pat on the back for doing the right thing, in this life, I'm not sure it's going to come just because you're feeling martyred about it. This IS the trial of our faith, which is more precious than gold. No cross, no crown. (That is, no VICTOR's crown).

Maybe none of this is helpful, and it sounds like I don't have an ounce of sympathy, but, there are some pains we cannot spare one another. They are part of growing, and being, 'in Christ'.


About God's silence, Oswald Chambers had this to say.



AFTER GOD'S SILENCE - WHAT? (11th October)


"When He had heard therefore that he was sick, He abode two days in the same place where he was." John 11:6


Has God trusted you with a silence - a silence that is big with meaning? God's silences are His answers. Think of those days of absolute silence in the home at Bethany! Is there anything analogous to those days in your life? Can God trust you like that, or are you still asking for a visible answer? God will give you the blessings you ask if you will not go any further without them; but His silence is the sign that He is bringing you into a marvellous understanding of Himself. Are you mourning before God because you have not had an audible response? You will find that God has trusted you in the most intimate way possible, with an absolute silence, not of despair, but of pleasure, because He saw that you could stand a bigger revelation. If God has given you a silence, praise Him, He is bringing you into the great run of His purposes. The manifestation of the answer in time is a matter of God's sovereignty. Time is nothing to God. For a while you said - "I asked God to give me bread, and He gave me a stone." He did not, and to-day you find He gave you the bread of life.

A wonderful thing about God's silence is that the contagion of His stillness gets into you and you become perfectly confident - "I know God has heard me." His silence is the proof that He has. As long as you have the idea that God will bless you in answer to prayer, He will do it, but He will never give you the grace of silence. If Jesus Christ is bringing you into the understanding that prayer is for the glorifying of His Father, He will give you the first sign of His intimacy - silence.

 2010/11/16 16:17
terrybob
Member



Joined: 2010/2/16
Posts: 30
Yorkshire, England

 Re:

My dear brother Codek my heart goes out to you after reading your last post - you are not alone some of us have been there and come through the pain, loss and frustration into the light.

Deep peace in my heart assures me that God is pleased with where I am at this moment in time - when I lose it I know things are wrong.

Anything, anything at all that gets between me and the Lord Jesus is sin - so I come to the foot of the cross and ask the Lord to show me what is between us - within my conciousness I am aware of what it is, the remedy is sometimes is very, very hard to do, we confess it to Him, often with tears and His peace returns and is made firm when I ask others for their forgiveness of me.

The things that get in the way of my walk with the Lord can be and have been things that are in themselves good. Things like, the church fellowship, work, home, money transactions, in fact anything that takes first place in my life in stead of the Lord Jesus.

The test is, "Is the Lord Jesus in the centre of this..?"

This is hard to do, it is all about bending the neck to the Lord, Christ not I.

There is much more that could be said about churches and attitudes of others who attend, but not now.

I know you are hurting, badly, and just want you to know that you are being lifted up before the Lord that He will speak to your heart in ways that only you will know.

God bless and grant you His peace.

Terry





_________________
Terry Smith

 2010/11/16 16:24Profile









 Re:

Codek,

I haven't read anyone else's posts, so I don't know if they have said this, but.....go have it out with God bro. Find a place where you can scream your head off and ask Him every question you have. Get off this website.....honestly, there is not a person on this forum that can help you. Find a place in the woods or go for a drive and just have it out with God.

 2010/11/16 16:52
Renoncer
Member



Joined: 2010/6/26
Posts: 483


 Re:

Codek,

The reason you are suffering so much lays in this truth: "Obedience is better than sacrifice." (1Samuel 15:22)

The problem is that you have been looking at this the wrong way. God does not require you to sacrifice for Him; He has done that for you. All that God desires is a contrite heart. (Psalm 51:17)

Stop trying to fit in a particular mold. Stop trying to make yourself worthy. Instead, just surrender to His love. Surrender to His sanctifying Spirit. Surrender to His mercy. Surrender to His control. Surrender to His will. Surrender to Christ Jesus, the author and perfecter of your faith. Surrender out of love, not out of obligation. If love doesn’t compel you to follow Him, then by all means ask God to show you His love for you in Christ Jesus!

Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God. Consider Him who endured from sinners such hostility against Himself, so that you may not grow weary or fainthearted. In your struggle against sin you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood. And have you forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons? "My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor be weary when reproved by him. For the Lord disciplines the one He loves, and chastises every son whom He receives." (Hebrews 12:1-6)

Which way will it be? The way of love, or the way of bitterness?
May God bless you as you seek His face and meditate upon His sacrificial love.

In Christ Jesus,
Renoncer

 2010/11/16 19:59Profile









 Re:

Thanks Mahoney for the suggestion and it usually does help. But for me, these days, no lasting change occurs. It helps me feel better for that moment especially when I weep but then the next day there is no clear direction, no clear answer, no vision, no nothing really.

And you know what, I guess that's how you feel God's love, when you weep. How else do you feel His Love.

I tried that. I screamed til I lost my voice. I was banging against walls and doing whatever I can.

I weeped and still there was no lasting answer.

I don't know maybe I just need to suffer some more and wait on God's timing. Maybe I'm just suppose to suffer now?

 2010/11/17 2:12









 Re:

Quote:
Stop trying to fit in a particular mold. Stop trying to make yourself worthy. Instead, just surrender to His love. Surrender to His sanctifying Spirit. Surrender to His mercy. Surrender to His control. Surrender to His will. Surrender to Christ Jesus, the author and perfecter of your faith. Surrender out of love, not out of obligation. If love doesn’t compel you to follow Him, then by all means ask God to show you His love for you in Christ Jesus!



Renouncer, I'm with you. That's what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to have a relationship with this guy that doesn't seem to say much. And now since I've been hurt so many times, I can't trust Him. I sometimes question if He is even there now. It's really messed up and I'm going crazy.

Everything I do is an act of surrender. When I give something up for Him, I surrender. When I fight for the right things and not the things that will make me popular, I surrender.

This part is really confusing to me.

 2010/11/17 2:22









 Re:

First off, I want to thank you AliveToGod because you have followed this thread from the beginning. A lot of times, I didn't really respond because I didn't know how and my thoughts changed but thank you brother for taking time out to write these posts and I have read all of them.

Quote:
It's called hypocrisy. Or, it's because the whole gospel is not being preached in such a way that the individuals who do actually attend (your) church, can take their rubbish to the cross and leave it there, while true worship is setting them free to do so, on a weekly basis. We ALL need our feet washed.



I agree with you but I'm not asking for perfection. I just ask that people TRY TO DO WHAT IS RIGHT. I don't care if you are on drugs, drug dealer, prostitutes or whatever. I just want people TRYING TO SEEK GOD AND GET BETTER. I don't really see that. I don't really have an example of one person like that in my life. Everyone is just struggling to survive in this crazy world.

Quote:
Maybe none of this is helpful, and it sounds like I don't have an ounce of sympathy, but, there are some pains we cannot spare one another. They are part of growing, and being, 'in Christ'.



Just speak truth brother. Don't sugarcoat anything. If I'm being a whiny loser then just tell me. If I'm being arrogant, then tell me. I like it when people are direct with me.

"The TRUTH shall set you free."

About the silence thing at the end. I'm not quite sure what you are getting at. I will reread and go from there.

all in all, I feel alone, like God is very displeased with me, like He has abandoned me, but it's not really sin, there isn't a particular sin that is causing this I don't think and I prayed about it too.

I just don't know what is going on now.

 2010/11/17 2:38
Renoncer
Member



Joined: 2010/6/26
Posts: 483


 Re:

Codek,
You are confusing surrender and sacrifice, as many people are. Meditate on the truth that obedience is better than sacrifice. This is the key to get you out of this dark place.

The truth is that God is speaking to you, right now. Yes, it may not be through an unusual revelation, or a voice coming down from heaven, or lightning and thunder... It may be through his servant. It definitely is through His Word, the Bible. You say you do not know why God is making you suffer so much... I say this is a lie from the mouth of the deceiver. The truth is that God has spoken much on this issue.

Read Hebrews 12:1-6, Romans 8:18-39, James 1:2-4, 1 Peter 1:6-7, Romans 5:3-6. Read the Psalms and see how much it speaks about suffering. Be encouraged by Psalm 139.

This is not a matter of silence. It is a matter of faith.
I pray that God would strengthen you and open the eyes of your heart, that you may see the riches of His glorious inheritance, the hope to which He has called you, and His tremendous power to those who believe. His love does not fail, even in the storm.

In sincere love,
Renoncer

 2010/11/17 8:48Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2006
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

codek: Dear brother, I obviously don't know you and must reply based on what you have said, but the things you have said seem telling to me, and I would like to encourage you.

Quote:
I started this thread because I thought maybe God was mad at me and that is why God never says a word but I follow God way more than other people. It's not that I'm self righteous but I have always sought God and sacrificed for Him(i know this because I bore social/financial consequences for His sake and this is why I'm so hurt and angry)but now I'm older and wiser and I don't feel like suffering anymore.



You have said a lot in your posts about following God, obeying God, serving God, and sacrificing for God, but I have yet to hear you speak of KNOWING God. God is not really very interested in your service or your sacrifice. His desire is to know you in a very personal and intimate way. In Philippians 3, Paul give his spiritual pedigree. He "served, obeyed, sacrificed, followed" God or at least thought he was more diligently and zealously than any other. But Paul had to consider it all dung and lay it down so "that I might KNOW Him..." Phil. 3:10. It all begins with intimate relationship and it all must flow out of that place. If God has your heart in intimate love and relationship, your obedience and service will be a natural outflow of that relationship and will be a joy, not a struggle. Faith proceeds from knowledge. I don't have a lot of faith in people that I have not intimate knowledge of. Faith is based on knowledge (Rom. 10:17) and works by love (Gal. 5:6).

Please don't misunderstand what I am about to say. Jesus called the Pharisees whitewashed tombs because they purified the outside of the vessel, but inwardly were full of dead men's bones. Their relationship to God was based on what they "did", not on a personal and intimate relationship. I am NOT calling you a Pharisee so I don't want you to misunderstand why I use that example. I use it because it helps us see that sometimes we can get into a type of spiritual mentality where we think, "God, look at all the things I am doing for You and giving up for You and what have you given me in return?" It is a works based mentality just as sure as the Pharisees were under the law (a works based, performance driven mentality toward God). The problem is that it is not only the "hypocrits" at church that do this. I am often tempted to slip back under this mentality and think that I am somehow going to earn something from God by my performance.

God desires for you to be a son, not a servant. (Romans 8:15, Gal. 4:6) Servants are always looking at their own performance and their own reward. They get rewards based on how well they serve. They are jealous if another servant seems to be rewarded better than them. Sons have the father AS their reward. All that belongs to the Father belongs to them because they are sons, heirs, joint heirs. When they serve it is out of a totally different motivation. It is because they are intimate with their Father and naturally seek to do what they see their Father doing. This is the kind of relationship that God longs to have with you.

Brother, I am not sure what part of the country you live in, but I would like to suggest that you find a group of Christians in that area that are following hard after God. I am not talking about one of these groups that is working up revival, nor am I talking about a group that is really zealous about "following the laws of God more purely than the church down the street". I am talking about a people who have vibrant relationship with God through Christ and are walking in His power, His love, His grace, and who out of that relationship have a genuine desire for holiness, not an outward show only. You need to connect to a people like this. If you would like to PM me your city, maybe I could see if I know of anyone in that area. I can also suggest some teachers and resources online that would really help you and strengthen you.


_________________
Travis

 2010/11/17 10:35Profile





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