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Dear Jimmy,

Do I not rightly guess that you are a professional clergyman with a salaried position in the Industrial Church? I do not suggest that you are a money-grubber, only that, as a paid representative of the Religion Industry, your personal finances cloud your perspective on the Kingdom of God.

At the World Council of Cults, we insist on separation from the Religio-Industrial Complex, not because sin, error and compromise can be found there, but because the whole thing is a commercial racket, wholly unrelated to the Kingdom of God.

Those of us who have "come out of her" may be wandering in the wilderness, but at least the air is clean out here. We abandoned what you call "the church," not because it is sinful, but because it is silly.

If the money were cut off from what you call "the church," it would immediately cease to exist. If the Spirit fell upon it as on the day of Pentecost, it would burst like an old wineskin.

I agree with you that people who withdraw from fellowship entirely and "go solo" have probably flipped. My objection is to your assumption that the financial institution that you call "the church" has any relation to the Kingdom of God.

 2010/10/3 9:34

 Re: Coming Out of The Church: The Remnant Heresy

I loved that write up Jim, love it!!

However, in loving it, I am one of those that don't go to Church.

My motives are right before God, but there are thousands out there who's motives are wrong.

I have always been led by the Spirit to sit under certain ministries. The last Church I sat under the Holy Ghost said (and I know His voice) "I want you to leave this Church". I objected at first, then finally I obeyed. For me it was purely what God had said, and it had nothing to do with what was going on in the Church, mind you a year down the road the Pastor ran off with the secratary, but that wasn't the reasons as to why I left. That was 5 years ago and I have never had a leading to go anywhere even though I have prayed earnestly for direction. I have attended churches here and there to see if they might be the one, but nothing. So I left the whole enterprise up to the Lord and my conscience is at peace. I have a few friends that believe in this remnant idea and I fellowship with them and our fellowship is sweet. They have their ideas about the last days, remnant, mark of the beast which I don't subscribe to, but they are just mi-nute words that get spoken of during our times of fellowship that don't mean anything to me.

There is always a remnant of some sorts down through the ages, but not to the degree that people today have made it out today. There are literally millions of Christians worldwide that are calling upon the name of the Lord. Yes, their lives have all kinds of messy situations but it does say, "Many are the afflictions of the righteous". So there is never going to be this perfect people Church organization that everyone is looking for. In Church, expect to be offended, expect to be put down, expect to be lifted up, expect to be talked about, expect jealousy, expect envy, expect legalism, expect all of these things because this is what's going to be found in going to Church. Yes there will be times of great fellowship. There will be great times of the power of God, and unity.

In a large family your going to find all kinds of happiness and problems that live side by side.

I grew up in a family 8 brothers and 8 sisters. We had our happy times and we had our bad times. I remember running away from home because I couldn't stand the bad times, but I was home that night. (it's easy running away in the day, but the night cometh, oh boy!!) I swallowed my childish fear and grinned and bore it.

In the family of God is no different. Those that run away are the remnant that complains about what the Church is NOT doing and they themselves don't do any of what they think the Church should be doing.

And what should the Church be doing anyway if Christ paid the price for all of it??

Unless you or I have been commissioned by the Holy Ghost Himself, we are like those standing around the market place waiting to be hired. I am not going to venture out into something that I haven't been called into. But there are many that have done just that. So many out there that follow Brother David Wilkersons covering of being a "Watchman", and they are no more than a watchman than brother David is. Brother Wilkerson refuses to be called a prophet, but he is one regardless of his continual denial. God didn't set in the Church any calling of Watchman, but there are so many out there that call themselves the remnant that say they are watchmen.

We don't need any watchman to speak of danger, though we have others that have warned us and nothing wrong with that, I am referring to the so called calling of being a Watchmen. Have we forgotten that we individually know the voice of God? In the Old Testament, the congregation relied on the ministry to hear from God. But we all hear from God for ourselves, we need not a man to teach us, but only that anointing that is upon a man will we hear from, "becareful how you hear".

How did I get over into this? Got side tracked me thinks.

Anyway, totally agree with that write up brother Jim.

 2010/10/3 11:52

Joined: 2007/3/21
Posts: 87

 Re: Coming Out of The Church: The Remnant Heresy

quote]* The prosperity gospel, teaching that godliness is a means of gain. Yet for all of these problems that existed in the Church then, never once do we find anybody ever instructed to withdraw their fellowship from an intentionally gathered local assembly of the saints. Not once.[/quote

Oh really. I beg to differ.

I Timothy 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

Eric Lanham

 2010/10/3 12:16Profile


We really should participate in a good bible believing /teaching/serving/praying/witnessing fellowship that meets regularly.

Otherwise you can easily be led astray by the sinless perfection camp,
the Trinity denying camp, the God is done with Israel camp,, the God has chosen only me camp and so many more that abound here and everywhere else.

 2010/10/3 13:08

 Re: Coming Out of The Church: The Remnant Heresy

good deal Jimmy.

Mission accomplished!

all eyes on you baby, whats next?


all right then, lets move on.


 2010/10/3 14:24


We really should participate in a good bible believing /teaching/serving/praying/witnessing fellowship that meets regularly.

If these institutional churches were actually "bible believing" they would really have fellowship instead of their programed Sunday "service". The body would actually be able to be a functioning body. They would not forbid certain gifts that God says not to forbid, they would drop their carnal denominational names that divide..etc..etc. They boast of the doctrines they cherish, that look good in any doctrinal statment, claming to hold and defend the truth while disobeying God in the practical area's of fellowship and body ministry that actually affect the growth of the believes. There's nothing worse than a fellowship that exaults the fact the they "believe" the bible and yet don't obey.

It really reminds me of the Pharisee's desire to keep the status quo even in spite of the plain truth before their eyes.

 2010/10/3 14:27


Good Christian fellowship is indeed important. We must encourage each other and so much the more as we see the day approaching (Heb 10:25).

I will add to your list, those that prey on the Lord's sheep. We must stay far away from them. The law of payment (tithe) rather than the grace of giving as a man purposes in his own heart (2 Cor 9:7), not as other men purpose for him. We belong to the Lord not to men.

I have heard preaching that "if you do not tithe, God will get it from you somehow." Or, "You must give to God (read the organization), before you pay your bills", or, "you will not be blessed by God if you do not tithe". This is fear mongering cloaked by religious words, resulting in control and manipulation. There are old people including widows that live on fixed income and have been lied to thinking that God will not bless them if they don't hand over their PAYMENT. And if they keep tithing their ship will come in someday. Wonder what would happen if I dropped a couple of chickens in the offering plate. MONEY, MONEY, MONEY, that is all we are worth to the false shepherds and their multi-level marketing scheme. Guess what? We are worth far more than that to the Lord Jesus. He does not want our money, He wants our heart.

God's people are made debtors to a false religious system. Nothing new under the sun. The heart of man is desperately wicked.

Do you know all the hardships placed on the Lord's people by this false teaching of payment? I hope you do not require this. I see you have titled yourself a "reverend", so that is why I ask. I am not saying you do, but just asking. If you don't require tithing, I hope you are trying to convince other "Reverends" about what you believe and what God's Word says.

Read the following verses: This is God's Word for all of us!!

Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Jer 17:10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.
Jer 17:11 As the partridge sitteth on eggs, and hatcheth them not; so he that getteth riches, and not by right, shall leave them in the midst of his days, and at his end shall be a fool.

Isa 10:1 Woe unto them that decree unrighteous decrees, and that write grievousness which they have prescribed;
Isa 10:2 To turn aside the needy from judgment, and to take away the right from the poor of my people, that widows may be their prey, and that they may rob the fatherless!

Eze 22:24 Son of man, say unto her, Thou art the land that is not cleansed, nor rained upon in the day of indignation.
Eze 22:25 There is a conspiracy of her prophets in the midst thereof, like a roaring lion ravening the prey; they have devoured souls; they have taken the treasure and precious things; they have made her many widows in the midst thereof.
Eze 22:26 Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed difference between the unclean and the clean, and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths, and I am profaned among them.
Eze 22:27 Her princes in the midst thereof are like wolves ravening the prey, to shed blood, and to destroy souls, to get dishonest gain.
Eze 22:28 And her prophets have daubed them with untempered morter, seeing vanity, and divining lies unto them, saying, Thus saith the Lord GOD, when the LORD hath not spoken.
Eze 22:29 The people of the land have used oppression, and exercised robbery, and have vexed the poor and needy: yea, they have oppressed the stranger wrongfully.

Mat 23:10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
Mat 23:11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
Mat 23:12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
Mat 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

Mat 23:14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

The sad thing is that they think they are doing God's work and continue to justify their own ways.

Jer 16:10 And it shall come to pass, when thou shalt shew this people all these words, and they shall say unto thee, Wherefore hath the LORD pronounced all this great evil against us? or what is our iniquity? or what is our sin that we have committed against the LORD our God?

They don't even see their transgression.

Isa 1:8 And the daughter of Zion is left as a cottage in a vineyard, as a lodge in a garden of cucumbers, as a besieged city.

Isa 1:9 Except the LORD of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.

Isa 1:17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.

Isa 1:23 Thy princes are rebellious, and companions of thieves: every one loveth gifts, and followeth after rewards: they judge not the fatherless, neither doth the cause of the widow come unto them.

Isa 1:24 Therefore saith the Lord, the LORD of hosts, the mighty One of Israel, Ah, I will ease me of mine adversaries, and avenge me of mine enemies:

People being led out of the false religious system are being led out by the Holy Spirit. He is rescuing His sheep from the oppressors. How much clearer can God's Word be? He hates the oppression of His people. He hates that His people are a prey, making bricks for little Pharoahs. "Let my people go", is the cry of God's heart, still.

Am I inditing all organizations? No just the false religious system that lives in peoples hearts. You have to figure out which one you are in or if it is in you.

Read God's Word and come to His Word with your whole heart otherwise you are just going to have a religious experience.

Religious experience or Spiritual experience? It's up to you.

 2010/10/3 14:38

Joined: 2009/3/17
Posts: 308
Central Alberta, Canada

 Re: Coming Out of The Church: The Remnant Heresy


Be careful not to become guilty of the very self same thing (critical spirit) that you accuse others of. Speck or plank is it? I ask you to carefully reconsider your wording in light of Gal 6:1.

But a word of wisdom to you anyways...

Do you know how serious it is to get it (Christianity) all wrong; do you know what "born again" truly is? Hint: it is not some cliche that was invented by some famous preacher, to describe someone who said the sinner's prayer once. Not all who say they are "born again" truly are that in the biblical sense of it.

Do you realize what it is that is at stake here to get it all wrong? Do you realize how serious this is? No, this isn't a call to sinless perfection by means of religious works, but a clarion call to repentance before God, which we all must do from time to time. This must be done individually and corporately, so that His Spirit can have His work in us.

So there may be some that God has called into the wilderness for now to sort things out, shouldn't you be embracing them in a spirit of love as being a part of the body of Christ...shouldn't you?

Look see, Jesus teaches about the remnant......

Just who is Jesus talking to and about in the following passage:

Matthew 7:13-14 (New King James Version)

The Narrow Way

“Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

...few (a remnant) who find it...and just who is everyone else anyway?

Well, to quote another:

Today's American (Western) Christian world has changed the narrow gate Jesus mentioned into a 10 lane freeway, and with this new gospel, anyone who repeats a little unrepentant prayer asking Jesus to be their friend and BAMMMM! ...they just had their name written in the Lambs book of life.

......yet He says "few find it"......I wonder why?

What does it mean to enter in at the narrow gate, and why are today's organized religions missing the mark? ...or maybe you don't think they are.


We absolutely must seek out the fellowship of others who are truly of the body of Jesus Christ, and fellowship with them.


Because...where two or Three are gathered in my name...

a video:


 2010/10/3 14:44Profile


I remember going to hear one of the frequently promoted speakers here on SermonIndex speak at an institutional church a couple years ago. After the service he and the pastor were stitting down with a young "out of church" lady. The pastor was telling her why should should be in weekly service. One of his reason's was so that she could see how the Pastor treats his wife..and how a godly relationship works. I was thinking how is that possible? How is someone going to know these things from listening to a guy speak during and 1.5 hr service and maybe hanging around a little when it's done?

But, if she spent some time in pastors home, saw how he really treated his wife and kids she would know. If she actually spent time with them as a functioning family then it would be possible. I think so many people have a faulty foundation of what fellowship really is. One thing I know for sure...fellowship is not sitting in a 1.5 hour service every week until they day that you die. Surely Christ didn't die so that His body could sit and listen to one or two guys speak the rest of their life. Nor did He die so that we could get "plugged in" to some personalities ministry so they can build their own kingdom in Christ name.

 2010/10/3 14:45


Should we go to a church if the head guy or guys call themselves "Reverand"? Which means "worth of adoration or reverance". Sort of a self exaulting title isn't it? It certainly doesn't fit with the spirit of "we are all brothers".

 2010/10/3 15:07

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