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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Michael Brown and James White defend the doctrine of the Trinity

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PosterThread
Renoncer
Member



Joined: 2010/6/26
Posts: 483


 Re:

…blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming. (Ephesians 4:14)

 2010/9/20 16:57Profile









 Re:

Actually, it was alone with God that these things came to be acknowledged . . . having left most all of the teachings of men (just like me) back at the doormat.

 2010/9/20 19:05









 Re:

Quote:
Be wary of what you say just because someone does not adhere to the Scarlet Mother of Harlots dogma continued in and perpetiated by a few of her rebellious bastard children.



Yikes!

 2010/9/20 19:12









 Re:

Quote:
We are stepping out on a very weak limb to state that the Holy Spirit is something other than Christ Jesus. This is just another way of saying the Holy Spirit is antichrist.

Wow, what heresy. To suggests that anyone who teaches that the Holy Spirit is someone other than Jesus is antichrist is of itself Antichrist.

 2010/9/20 19:43
MyVeryHeart
Member



Joined: 2010/8/30
Posts: 449
Paradise, California

 Re:

"Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come." Matthew 12:32

Phanetheus,

If the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Jesus how can one speak a word against Jesus, the Son of Man, and be forgiven, but speak against the Holy Spirit and not be forgiven in this age or in the age to come?


_________________
Travis

 2010/9/20 21:14Profile
Burn4Christ
Member



Joined: 2007/2/14
Posts: 41


 Re:

in my reading of scripture i believe it to be very evident that the Holy Spirit is distinct from the Father and Christ yet God. With just a plain reading of the text this is what i see scripture to teach. When I read the "Spirit of Christ" and the "Spirit of God" (Romans 8:9) that just testifies to me even more that there is One God, in which the persons within that one being of God can be identified as each other yet still remain distinct. They're interrelationship and union is so perfect that they are recognized as one.(deut 6:4, John 10:30), sharing the same homoousios (being,essence,nature,ect.) and displaying distinctions in relation to mankind (each having their own work yet all intertwined in some way within that work). As one writer put it "they dance together as one with no space or room between them." in function. In my reading of the text in John 16:13 we have Jesus telling us of the selflessness of the Spirit (why scripture is so silent in reguards to him) and his function within the economic trinity. He only glorifies the Christ and dares not to take away from his sacrifice and puts that truth into our hearts to be selfless as he. Likewise we are to be like Christ as well in reguards to humbling ourselves (phil 2:5-9). Hope this edifies.

In Him


_________________
Christopher Cox

 2010/9/20 22:40Profile









 Re:

Having answered emails and 1 person PM-ing me, yet not yet having answered all those emails...
...man oh man, wow, all the ideas floating aroundabout things i never said nor implied.

Still not done in responding to all, this thread is just sitting dormant and awaiting reply.

Response, as time affords, will be from last to first.

Let's get this right.








by Burn4Christ on 2010/9/20 18:40:13

in my reading of scripture i believe it to be very evident that the Holy Spirit is distinct from the Father and Christ yet God.
------------------------------------------------------------P:
Is what you just stated what scripture states?
Where in the Bible does it say that the Holy Spirit is distinct from the Father and Christ?
__________________________________________________________





B4C:
With just a plain reading of the text this is what i see scripture to teach.
------------------------------------------------------------
P:
Are you sure you are not just assuming something that just isn't there?
__________________________________________________________





B4C:
When I read the "Spirit of Christ" and the "Spirit of God" (Romans 8:9) that just testifies to me even more that there is One God, in which the persons within that one being of God can be identified as each other yet still remain distinct. The reason God's Spirit is referred to in scripture as the "Spirit of Christ" or Paul states that "there is one Spirit" and follows with "...Now the Lord is that Spirit..." is because the Holy Spirit is who the Bible reveals He is, The Lord Jesus Christ.
------------------------------------------------------------
P:

OK.

Let's get this straight . . . If the Father is the Son is the Holy Spirit to you, no matter how you rationalize this, it contradicts the personage of Godhead. This is an invalid line of reasoning. Where is the Son called the Father and the Father called the Son.

The Spirit is not called our Father, but is referred to as both Lord and Christ. This reveals that the Spirit is Jesus glorified and not the Father.


The reason God's Spirit is referred to in scripture as the "Spirit of Christ" or Paul states that "there is one Spirit" and follows with "...Now the Lord is that Spirit..." is because the Holy Spirit is who the Bible reveals He is The Lord Jesus Christ, (who always has been and is God)
...or is the Bible wrong?

Following that thinking the Father is the Son is the Spirit, yet this is not God's revelation to us.
____________________________________________________________



B4C:
They're interrelationship and union is so perfect that they are recognized as one.(deut 6:4, John 10:30), sharing the same homoousios (being,essence,nature,ect.) and displaying distinctions in relation to mankind (each having their own work yet all intertwined in some way within that work). As one writer put it "they dance together as one with no space or room between them." in function. In my reading of the text in John 16:13 we have Jesus telling us of the selflessness of the Spirit (why scripture is so silent in reguards to him) and his function within the economic trinity. He only glorifies the Christ and dares not to take away from his sacrifice and puts that truth into our hearts to be selfless as he. Likewise we are to be like Christ as well in reguards to humbling ourselves (phil 2:5-9). Hope this edifies.

In Him

------------------------------------------------------------
Now it is not denied that all of the Godhead are recognized as one. It's just that, when spoken of in various avenues of their individual expression, they are not referred to as one another, and names are not used interchangably.
(WE do find this to be the case in referring to the Holy Spirit though . . . but why?)


The Holy Spirit is not a messenger boy nor minister like angels.

Think about this.

The Holy Spirit is God.

The Son speaks himself;
The Father himself speaks;
but this 'coin stamp exact diplicate' of the Father and the Son operate in the same principles?????

Where in the Bible does it say outright that the Holy Spirit is a person seperate and distinct from the Son?

Do you think that just maybe
that when the Spirit of God
is referred to as either the Lord
or the Spirit of Christ
it might just be because this is who He is?

The Holy Spirit glorifies Christ because this Spirit of Christ is the Lord Himself.


(Self-denial is not self-negation.)

i really don't think the scriptures are at all that silent about the Spirit of God, whether in His function as the Holy Spirit of Christ Jesus the Lord, whether through the form of a bird or Shekinah.


Shalom,
g

 2010/9/24 18:40









 Re:

by MyVeryHeart on 2010/9/20 17:14:40

"Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come." Matthew 12:32

Phanetheus,

If the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Jesus how can one speak a word against Jesus, the Son of Man, and be forgiven, but speak against the Holy Spirit and not be forgiven in this age or in the age to come?
------------------------------------------------------------
P:
Jesus, as the "Son of Man" had emptied himself of all divinity. i am not saying that he was ever not God, because He always is: HE just emptied himself. (I Tim 3.16; Phil. 2.5-7; I Jn. 4.3.

This is why offence here will be forgiven.

We are talking about the unpardonable sin.

The only thing found in the Bible that will not be pardoned is rejecting Jesus as the Christ and Lord, both in this age, and in the age to come. This is understandable as to the why . . . the Spirit of Christ who is the Lord, is Jesus glorified, approved by God which is seen in His resurrection.

Jesus, having recieved His former glory, again everywhere present and filling all in all . . . rejecting the work of His Holy Spirit (Jn. 16.7-11), there is no pardon because He (Jesus) has completed everything necessary to reconcile us back to God.

Jesus left bodily so He could in Spirit, be with all who are His.

(It's either this or the Holy Spirit is someone else undefined and what exactly would be this sin against the Holy Spirit that is not pardoned?????


Shalom,
g

 2010/9/24 18:57









 Re:

by Notdarkyet on 2010/9/20 15:43:49

Quote:
We are stepping out on a very weak limb to state that the Holy Spirit is something other than Christ Jesus. This is just another way of saying the Holy Spirit is antichrist.

Wow, what heresy. To suggests that anyone who teaches that the Holy Spirit is someone other than Jesus is antichrist is of itself Antichrist.
------------------------------------------------------------
Antichrist is a spirit and not a person.

Take a piece of paper and draw a line down the middle of it.

On one side of the line, label it Holy Spirit (of Christ Jesus the Lord) and write down all these attributes. The other side of the line we label antichrist, which is everything that is not in the first column.

To say that the Holy Spirit is not the Lord --(and there is only one)-- Jesus (in action or representation) is the spirit of antichrist.

It was not suggested that any person is antichrist. What is meant is that to say that the Holy Spirit is not the Lord Jeusus Christ is the spirit of "something other than" <-- ="anti-" Christ.

Hope that is clearer.


Shalom,
g

 2010/9/24 19:09









 Re:

by EverestoSama on 2010/9/20 15:12:12

Quote:
Be wary of what you say just because someone does not adhere to the Scarlet Mother of Harlots dogma continued in and perpetiated by a few of her rebellious bastard children.



Yikes!
------------------------------------------------------------
Yikes is right.

That last word in the sentence should have been daughters, referring to intitutionalized protestantism and not individual people in the word "children."

As well, "perpetiated" should have been spelled as "perpetuated."


How'z dat?


Shalom,
g

 2010/9/24 19:19





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