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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Michael Brown and James White defend the doctrine of the Trinity

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Joined: 2007/2/14
Posts: 41

 Michael Brown and James White defend the doctrine of the Trinity

If you follow the link you can hear excerpts from the debate that took place tuesday between Michael Brown and James White (trinity) vs. Joseph Good and Sir Anthony Buzzard(Unitarians) on Dr. browns radio program. Please enjoy

P.S. The debate won't be availabe until a later time.

Christopher Cox

 2010/9/17 13:57Profile

Joined: 2010/6/8
Posts: 191

 Re: Michael Brown and James White defend the doctrine of the Trinity

What is there to defend?

There is but One God, he has revealed himself as Father in creation, the Saving Son in redemption, and the Holy Holy Spirit that dwelleth in the church today, that is in every believing heart.

God has manifested himself in these three main fashions as it pertains to dispensations of necessity. How about when Jesus said, I and My father are One! The Spirit of God, the Spirit of Christ, the Holy Spirit, they are all One, the same. Deity, God almighty, and in the man Jesus Christ dwelleth all of the fullness of the Godhead as represented in a body.

I do not ascribe to the idea that there is God the Father, God the son, and God the holy spirit as if they are three different persons.

Deut 6:4

 2010/9/17 17:44Profile


This is not in defense of trinitarianism but only an objection to what ManofGod0000 wrote.

According to John chapter 17, Jesus prayed to his father about his disciples. He prayed that his followers would be one in the same way that he and his father are one.

Did Jesus pray that his followers would be different roles played by the same person?

 2010/9/17 22:25

Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708


Who was hanging on the Cross when He was forsaken by Whom?

Did the Holy Spirit die on the Cross?

Did Jesus say "This is my Son in whom I am well pleased?

True we have all of the God head dwelling in us, by the rebirth of the Son in each believer, who has brought the Father to our abode with us and the Holy Spirit from the Father by the Son's prayer.

They are One God, but they certainly have three different manifestations of purpose in the life of the Believer.

In Christ: Phillip


 2010/9/17 22:43Profile

Joined: 2010/6/8
Posts: 191


To understand the oneness of God is to understand Christ and His Holy Spirit.

Jesus did everything to please and bring glory to the Father (the Eternal Spirit). But God cannot separated from either His spirit or His Word. Can I separate any of you from your Word or thoughts if I knew them? NO, that is the mystery, the revelation that Simon Peter had when he asked them Who do men say that I, the Son of Man am? He said the son(manifested Flesh) of the living God.

God doesn't have flesh in n of Himself, He became flesh that He might become the perfect sacrifice, Heb 9:22.

God is spirit, a spirit cannot die, So Jesus became the quote-un-quote work clothes/ the (power of the eternal Spirit ) manifested in the form of a man to all mankind.

It is a mystery, one of revelation, who is spoke to John in revelation, When we see God, we will behold Him in the face of Jesus Christ, as paul wrote timothy and stated He is the King Immortal, the Invisible God, the King of Kings, and the Only Potentate(one with controlling Power).

I believe that they are totally inseparable....

The idea of the triune God was a created philosophy during the Council of Nicea 325 ad. Look into it for yourself, If you were to ask most Hebraic people, those who are orthodoxed Christians or a part of Judaism, and they will tell you that a trinity is heresy, there is no such thing.

The savior was spoken of and manifested from Genesis to Revelation.

God bless

 2010/9/17 23:01Profile

Joined: 2010/6/8
Posts: 191


The holy spirit cannot die on the cross, but it was the spirit that Jesus stated he would send and give to the body of believers to comfort us, to lead us and guide us into all truth because the fleshy manifested son of God ascended into heaven to be seated at the right hand of God.

Right hand is metaphoric for the Power of God,
remember, I am my father are one,and you cannot separate one from the other .

Remember what he told Philip, He that hath seen me hath seen the Father.

His prayers, His action were all done for the glorification of one greater than He in His manifested flesh, but the glory is already revealed in Christ, it is what John saw on Patmos, when Christ was being described.

Who do you think that the four and twenty elders bowed down to worship, It was Him that sat upon the throne, the only one with the power to open the seals.

Christ the righteous, our hope n peace, eyes truly have not seen, nor have ears heard, nor has it even entered into the heart of them that Love the Lord.

 2010/9/17 23:08Profile

Joined: 2010/6/26
Posts: 483

 Re: Triune God

Very interesting. Let’s see if we can get untangled.

God is one in being. His being is revealed in a plurality of personal and relational eternal manifestations; these are the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, as defined in the final revelation of his divine Word, which has come to us in these last days through his apostles. This is evident from the same-level ontological attributions in Scripture.
In one sense, there is unity and singleness of his being; in another sense, there is plurality (precisely, three; from which comes the descriptive word “trinity”) in relational eternal manifestations.
Moreover, this triune manifestation is not only revealed in his being, but also in his dealing in the salvation of men. The Father foreknows, the Son fulfills the righteous requirement for our purchase by His blood, and the Holy Spirit enacts the sanctification and regeneration. There can be no salvation without the foreknowledge which designs the transaction (since his plans are necessarily fulfilled). There can be no salvation without the purchase by the infinitely worthy blood. There can be no salvation without the effectual work of his might.

Ontologically, this makes God fully sufficient in his being. He does not depend on his creature for relational interaction, while remaining eternally sufficient as the basis for all things. There can be nothing apart from Him, and He does not forsake his fullness in the effect of his creation.

The question remains, “Why three? Why not two, or four?” Obviously, the answer is impossible to be obtained, in the light of his revelation, which has exposed the nature of that which cannot be broken or altered in his being. We can nonetheless understand why humans are made in such, because we are made in his image, of the one who is eternally in his presence, being, nature, will, power, and worth. And out of this superseding character comes the necessity of eternal oneness, from which every other thing depends and comes about.

Whether you want to call this reality “trinity” or not, God’s triune being cannot be broken.

I trust that you will read, reread, pray, and read again, and pray more before replying.
Love in Christ Jesus, and for His glory.

 2010/9/18 0:32Profile

Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


hi, when i was 35 i had all this figured out but now i am in my 70s and am overwhelmed by the grandure of God and do not have a clue how to fit him in my test tube to examine Him...what about Cristofinies and the seven Spirits of God and so many more things i will not go into here.i have to let God be whatever He wants to be...God is love and he who abides in love abides in God...with love jimp

 2010/9/18 4:11Profile

Joined: 2010/6/8
Posts: 191


We don't have to fit Him in a test tube, He is One, but He has manifested Himself to us as dispensationally required by His own Sovereinty and Love to lowly man-kind.

Just remember this

The Nicean Council decided for the world during that day, that God was triune or a "trinity" 325 AD

Long read, but it is a very informative read, this was done at the hand of Constantine.

 2010/9/18 9:59Profile


by ManofGod0000 on 2010/9/17 :

...If you were to ask most Hebraic people, those who are orthodoxed Christians or a part of Judaism, and they will tell you that a trinity is heresy, there is no such thing....

To color outside of the lines delineated in scripture and step outside the boundaries of this witness isn't heresy.

It is false doctrine.

Nowhere in the Bible can anybody show where it states the Spirit of God is a person seperate and distinct from the Father or the Son.

That Nicean Council (325 A.D.) you speak of was an exercise in anti-Semetism, stating such things as to observe Sabbath is anathema, and you are Judaising if you do observe God's designated day over the Pontiff Maximus' designation of Shabbat on the day of Mithras (the sun god).

But Sunday observance and trinity have to be correct, right? How could so many Catholics and Protestants be wrong?

(We know that from Bible example (after example) that the majority is always the deciding factor and correct in following God's ideal towards our best interests...don't we?)

Shalom Shabbat,


 2010/9/18 10:35

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