SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Rapture

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 )

Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


hi, now that after all the sharing we now have come to a common agreement and that is that we all no wonder paul said iknow nothing except Jesus and HIM crucified.that is all you really have to know.jimp

 2010/8/22 7:53Profile

Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC



Jimmy, I'm not sure if you are aware of the Amillenial response to your statement. So just in case, here it is:

Yes, I'm familiar with the response. It's pretty much the same argument that people give for the "long day" theory in Genesis regarding creation. "Sometimes a day is not a day," sorta deal. However, in such passages as Psalm 50:10, et. al, numerical usage is "clearly" (a loaded term, I know) hyperbolic and poetic in function. However, numbers used in apocalyptic literature, while often being highly symbolic, seem to be very literal in their application. However even with that said, we must be careful not to broad brush and generalize this. But at the same, we should avoid the dangers of the over-spiritualization of numbers.

More often than not, I believe the amil. position spiritualizes away a lot of texts, especially old testament prophecy. So much so that the texts lose almost all meaning. Even if the 1,000 years depicted in Revelation 20 is symbolic of a long duration of time, the geo-political-spiritual reign of Christ from Jerusalem is an event that is demanded of prophecy in both testaments. Yet it is an event that seems altogether foreign from the amil. position. It shows a misunderstanding of the true nature of the kingdom of God, and ultimately I believe, the Messianic task and mission.

But I will have to hold off on any further comments regarding that for an essay I am presently working on :-)

Jimmy H

 2010/8/22 13:50Profile

 Re: ORACIO and re: my p.9 post

by Oracio on 2010/8/21 20:44:35


Amillenialists say that Rev. 20.2-7 is a figurative thousand years, and the millenium is non-existent.

Not so brother. Amillenialism says we are in the millenium now, similar to Postmillenialism. The difference from Postmil is that Postmil says there has to be a golden age where the world is largely Christianized before Christ comes back.

are you sure that you are not a revised post millenialist? I wondered how my teachers and so many preveiously read books could be wrong, yet on your word, Wikopedia was checked as a quick refresher, and here is the beginning of the article:

"Amillennialism (Latin: a- "no" + millennialism) is a view in Christian end-times theology named for its rejection of the theory that Jesus Christ will have a thousand-year long, physical reign on the earth. This is in opposition to premillennial and some postmillennial views of chapter 20 of the Book of Revelation.

In contrast, the amillennial view holds that the thousand years mentioned in Revelation 20 is a symbolic number, not a literal description; that the millennium has already begun and is identical with the current church age, (or more rarely, that it ended with the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70 — see Preterism). Amillennialism holds that while Christ's reign during the millennium is spiritual in nature, at the end of the church age, Christ will return in final judgment and establish a permanent physical reign.
Are you really sure you are an amillenialist?????

Also, what has been recalled from past learnings, in addition to the previous post about amillenialism is that:

- disembodied matyred saint rule with Christ from the 1st century until the one and only return of Jesus Messiah, according to Rev. 6.9 and 20.2.

-when Jesus does return, He will judge all mankind, revamp the heavens and earth (I Pet. 3.10-12), and then establish His glorious reign foevermore(Rev. 21-22)



Lysa is right in stating me to be post-trib (per her edit), yet i don't think the end times covered will go a full seven years, as in Daniel's last chapter it speak of the person who endures til the 1335th day as blessed, so any time after that Jesus shall return.

As well, it is desired to make clear that the tribulation referred to is the time of Jacob's troubles, and speaks only of the nations surrounding Jerusalem for war and the abomination of desolation. The book of Daniel, Revelation, and Jesus' prophecies are not only about this "tribulation", but things preceeding it and afterwards.


edited: 1 word error and clarity

 2010/8/22 14:39

Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2094
Whittier CA USA



In contrast, the amillennial view holds that the thousand years mentioned in Revelation 20 is a symbolic number, not a literal description; that the millennium has already begun and is identical with the current church age

Exaclty my point. The millenium has already begun and is identical with the current church age. Many Amillenialists do not like to use the word Amillenial because of its negative canotations. Some use the term "Realized Millenium".

I guess I misunderstood you when you wrote that we believe the millenium is non-existent. For Amillenarians it is non-existent in the sense of a literal physical reign of Christ on earth. In that sense you are right. But we strongly believe in the spiritual reality of the millenial reign of Christ. Christ clearly said, "But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you."(Matt.12:28). Christ inaugurated the kingdom of God in His first coming. Anyhow, I will let you guys share your views. God bless.


 2010/8/22 19:10Profile

Joined: 2007/6/19
Posts: 120
Panama City, FL


Thanks for all the replies to my question. I will definitely pray and study more about these things.

Lysa, thanks for the sermons I'll deff try to listen (or read) them when I have time.

Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. Matt. 24:42

One thing we know is that Jesus is coming! May we all be ready!!!


 2010/8/23 17:48Profile

Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy