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KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

I just thought I'd share briefly an adult Sunday school lesson I once taught that ties into this topic:

Listen: Redemption, Resurrection, and Reward - http://www.iamadisciple.com/sermons/redemption_resurrection_and_reward.mp3

It's about 45 minutes long. It's not specifically about the timing of the rapture, but, I think I show convincingly how what you believe about the future impacts how you live right now, and the importance of studying eschatology.

P.s. This word goes heavy and deep and quick.


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Jimmy H

 2010/8/19 20:28Profile









 Re:

Brother Jimmy,

the link provided says it's not on the server, page not found.

For those who have an ear to hear,

This does work:

Copy and paste this link

http://www.iamadisciple.com/sermons/index.php

into your address bar.

Then hit "enter".

Click on the fifth sermon on that page.



i'm far from against eschatology.

It's just that to give something that has not happened (YET) definites is like trying to walk up the stairs while watching the ceiling.

Over the course of end time BIBLE studies (avoiding the books about it), this being well over 20 years, the view has changed drastically from what it once was.

We are to always be looking for and towards Christ's return to rule earth. This is as much the gospel, and moreso in it's fulfillment, just as everything else He has done. What He did leads up to this.

Even so, Lord Jesus, come quickly!


Mara Natha,
g


p.s. ...it's the emphasis on one event and designating a specific time to it amongst a whole gammut of things to come is just whack.

This is one reason so much of the other things remain ununderstood, unmentioned, and even unknown to some.








 2010/8/19 21:34
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

I think that we agree much much more than we disagree



I think so too :-)

Quote:

I think that there is something extremely wrong when people base their living, actions and attitudes as "believers" upon the changing winds or views on the timing of how the end might come about.



Well, technically it's only wrong if they are wrong in their understanding. But, I do understand where you are coming from. I think there is definitely room for balance. We should live lives that are influenced by our eschatology. However, we ought to be careful in adopting any view, and should only do so after prayerful study. And should we lock on to any one view, we should make sure the lives we live in light of that view are consistent with the general thrust of Scripture. Thus, sitting around on roof tops and not redeeming our time as we await the coming of the Lord simply is not acceptable. As it is, "waiting" on the Lord is something that is active and not passive, much like a waiter at a restaurant remains busy while "waiting" on you as you eat.

Quote:

But what is the purpose of this? It is not necessarily to cause all of their hearers to somehow accept every last specific view of one (or more) of those "five folders" with whom they fellowship.



Agreed. I don't believe we'll ever have uniformity of doctrine. But that doesn't mean we cannot be united in our common purpose. Indeed, in John 17 Christ prayed as much. The unity we have and will have will be based on the common glory we have resting upon us through the Holy Spirit, and recognizing that glory in one another, and living accordingly. As I mentioned elsewhere recently: It's kinda hard to hate your brother when you see Jesus Christ in them.

Quote:

I don't know anyone who would ignore studying the issue with a goal of simply of remaining in ignorance.



Personally, most of the people I know who hold to a "pan-tribulational" theology are people who are willfully ignorant concerning these things, and deliberately ignore the writings of the prophets, and things like the book of Revelation. If they even read those writings, they just do so to say they've read them. So they pretty much just skim over large sections of Scripture, without really seeking to study them or understand. They treat these portions as "fly over country." I've even known ordained ministers that I went to Bible college with to do these things. I personally find such an attitude sad, and deeply troubling.

I know not everybody is this way, but I feel there are many people who are. No doubt, there are people who simply lack certainty in their hearts and minds about it all, even after careful study. But it's been my experience thus far, with the exception of certain pockets here and there, many people are simply negligent in this area of doctrine, and almost criminally so.

Many blessings.

Anyway, many blessings. :-)


_________________
Jimmy H

 2010/8/19 22:19Profile
jimp
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

hi, have you ever stood in the mountains and looked down at the clouds and then stood up and realized that your feet are on the ground and your head is in the air? end times study should usually begin in daniel... in chapter 3 we skip for end times study yet there is a beast that everyone must bow down to and a question of deliverence from tribulation and sure death (rapture)and there is obedience to God in face of pending danger and there is a sentencing to those 3 who would not bow down and increasing to 7 times hotter the fire and there is deliverence through the flames,fire and fumes because a FOURTH was in the fire joined to those who where obedient.Jesus...just one of my thoughts jimp

 2010/8/19 22:37Profile









 Re: Literal Millenium?



"Brothertom, if you don't mind me asking, are you premillenial regarding Rev.20? In other words, do you take the millenium to be a literal 1000 year reign of Christ on earth before the eternal state?"...ORACIO

Yes I do Oracio. There are way too many references to a literal millinium; including the imprisonment before of Satan, and his release after a 1000 years....and several promises concerning it.[ ruling with him for a thousand years, the state of altered creatures; the lion eating straw, the child and the cobra, the ages of men to vast centuries of life...on and on.]

It will be a restored Earth, but not completely sinless. We're in for a big surprise....and it will be good for those who have endured.

 2010/8/20 11:47
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2094
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Thanks for the reply Brothertom.


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Oracio

 2010/8/20 13:47Profile









 Re:

Quote:
I don't know anyone who would ignore studying the issue with a goal of simply of remaining in ignorance.



I would discourage anyone who would want to study end time prophecy. It's an absolute waste of valuable time and energy on something that may or may never come to pass. In the case of this subject, "Ignorance Is Bliss".

 2010/8/20 15:21
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2094
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Quote:

I would discourage anyone who would want to study end time prophecy. It's an absolute waste of valuable time and energy on something that may or may never come to pass. In the case of this subject, "Ignorance Is Bliss".



This statement is seriously problematic to me. It seems to be the attitude that says, "if its too hard to understand it, its not worth studying it." Much of the Bible is hard to understand sometimes and requires deeper study and prayerful reflection. Are we to dismiss other portions and teachings of Scripture simply because they are difficult to understand at first?

You say some of these things may or may never come to pass. Yet there are certain events which the Bible clearly declares will take place, and which every true Christian is in agreement with. These include, The second coming of Jesus Christ in bodily form, the physical resurrection of both the saved and unsaved, the final judgment of all of mankind, and the eternal state of glory.
I am still waiting to hear if you believe these truths yourself.


_________________
Oracio

 2010/8/20 16:03Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

I would discourage anyone who would want to study end time prophecy. It's an absolute waste of valuable time and energy on something that may or may never come to pass. In the case of this subject, "Ignorance Is Bliss".



We are told to fix our hope on the second coming of Christ in bodily form at the end of the age to judge the world in righteousness, and to usher in the fullness of the kingdom of God. Far from having a skeptical attitude towards the second coming, the apostle Peter told us in the last days scoffers would come who'd mock the idea, but he affirmed that it was a sure thing. So sure in fact, he encouraged us to "hasten" the day of the Lord. Far from an "ignorance is bliss" attitude, the apostle Paul told us that he wrote to us about the last days to keep us from being ignorant.

So, what you just said has absolutely no Scriptural basis to it whatsoever. It is a departure from the clear teaching of the Lord, as well as the tradition the apostles passed on towards us. It has nothing to do with Biblical Christianity.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2010/8/20 16:52Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707
Ca.

 Re:

Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

God has made the throne of David to be forever and Jesus Christ will sit on David's Throne on this earth and will rule and reign with the Body of Christ for 1000 years, then all else God has promised will come to Pass.

This David's Throne that Christ will sit upon. 2 Samuel 7:29 Therefore now let it please thee to bless the house of thy servant, that it may continue for ever before thee: for thou, O Lord GOD, hast spoken it: and with thy blessing let the house of thy servant be blessed for ever.

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

reign where? Isaiah 9:6-7 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

Seems end times are important to God; Amen

The Body of Christ His Church will be with Him of the first resurrection. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Then the Great White Throne Judgement; 2nd resurrection:
Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

The end as we know it. But Christ in you and you in Christ forever and the Holy Spirit teaching us throughout all eternity, and God our Father all making their Abode with us.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2010/8/20 21:58Profile





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