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Areadymind
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Joined: 2009/5/15
Posts: 1042
Pacific Ocean

 Re:

Erego the true and real danger of heresy and rampant false doctrine...

It is not the heresy itself we should fear, it is our reaction to it. If studying church history has taught me anything, it is almost precisely this one principle.


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Jeremiah Dusenberry

 2010/8/17 10:49Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Indeed. The same can be seen chiefly with the rise of the monarchical bishops and apostolic succession as a way of combatting heresy. As heretics began to increase, the church became increasingly hierarchical and centralized. The argument became: our bishops, who have served in unbroken continuation from the apostles, have believed these truths, therefore, since you cannot show a list of unbroken bishops linking back to the apostles, your doctrine must be false. And where there is such a line that supports a heretical view, if it cannot be demonstrated that Peter's chair has believed such, then it is contrary to apostolic teaching.


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Jimmy H

 2010/8/17 11:23Profile









 Re:

by Areadymind on 2010/8/17 4:26:30

Wasn't Augustine the progenitor of the "amillenial" eschatology?

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That and unconditional (not completely) eternal security, yet his theology regarding these two things breaks with God's purpose in putting man on earth.

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Oracio,

When Jesus prayed in example to those hearing him, "Thy kingdom come... on earth..." was that an error?

satan had first been given dominion over the earth.

In recreating what had become chaos through the devils reign and being cast down, God made it clear that He would ultimately rule the earth.

God creating man, who is a little lower than the angels, then giving him dominion over all the earth was a slap in the face to the devil.

Jesus incarnation set the stage so that the new covenant could go into effect (Luke 22.16) when he returns so that God will rule the earth, with satan and those who walk in his ways out of the picture, ultimately the former things completely non-existent, as the scripture states, "the former things will be remembered no more" after the re-renovation of both the heavens and the earth.

Both (false) doctrines ignore alot of prophecy.

...and as brother Jimmy says,"there is only one people of God (see Eph.2). It is we who adhere in the faithfulness of Jesus Christ, remaining in Him that are His children, and are a kingdom of kings and priests of God, to rule and reign with Him.

God's kingdom on earth is a matter of His way or the highway (to hell).

One decision, out of over 5000+ made daily (by every human on earth) is no indicator of salvation. Remaining in Jesus is:

I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
Jn. 15.1-6


Shalom,
g

edited: clarity

 2010/8/17 11:25
Areadymind
Member



Joined: 2009/5/15
Posts: 1042
Pacific Ocean

 Re:

If you want to read a rather shocking, and probably somewhat biased understanding of the fruit of Amillenial eschatology read the book, "The Forge of Christendom" by Tom Holland. It is a secular view of the history of these things, but in all honesty I think it has value because it is a gauntlet a non-believer has thrown down, and it is of value to agree with our adversary and take our gift to the altar. While Tom Holland will be probably biased in what he may or may not want you to conclude from his book...you will see what the fruit of this eschatology was.

We shall know them by their fruits...

However, I want to apologize to the original poster if I have yet again created a rabbit trail to the original intent of this thread.

We must face it...there are just some words in the Christians thesaurus that cause all sorts of synonimymic responses...

:)


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Jeremiah Dusenberry

 2010/8/17 11:42Profile
KingJimmy
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Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

No doubt, amillenialism naturally leads to a dominion theology that creates a theocractic state prior to the return of Christ. Thus, Christianity can become the official state religion, as it did in Rome, Great Britain, Spain, Germany, etc., and rules everything in the absence of Christ via popes, cardnials, and archbishops. Thus, you had the crusades, and when the reformation took place, land grabs and power struggles. All happened under an amillenial theology, a theology which by the way, pretty much declared the Great Commission over. Thus, even in light of the reformation, Luther and Calvin had no missionary desires, and that is why they used brute force to help spread their ideas.

Instead of sending out missionaries and evangelists out, all the state had to do was baptize other nations at sword point. Amillenial theology made it possible for the Church and State to become one, and sees the return of Christ as nothing much more than a return to rule the nations that the theocractic state had subdued.

This is in stark contrast to pre-millenial theology, which believes that instead of the Church taking over the nations and making the world friendly enough for Jesus to come back and rule over, that great hostility will continue to mount against the gospel and against the church as it makes it's way into the uttermost parts of the earth. Instead of Christ coming back to rule a subdued world, pre-millenial theology says Christ is coming back full of anger and wrath, to overthrow the kingdoms of this world which has mounted a universal rebellion over His rule and reign, as they take a stand against the Lord and His annointed.

Anyway... just some observations :-)


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Jimmy H

 2010/8/17 12:30Profile
KingJimmy
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Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Now, to get back on topic a bit, though now I only have time to comment in brief: Part of the reason that I have a problem with pre-tribulational pre-millenialism, is that the fruit of this doctrine, when logically followed, ultimately strangles the church in understanding its purposes, and in doing that, keeps it from functioning as it should.

For while this system does well in usually realizing that the entire world must hear the gospel before Christ can return, those who adhere to it fail to realize that not only must the gospel be fully preached, but according to Ephesians 4:11ff, the Church must come to full blown corporate maturity. Instead of preaching the Church must come to full blown maturity, it is taught that the Church will do just the opposite: become lukewarm, stagnant, and largely apostate. Thus, pre-tribulational pre-millenailism, especially of the dispensationalist school, can often lead to anything but strong and vibrant churches. And why should it create such? The Church is pretty much going the way of the world until Jesus raptures us out of here before the great tribulation. So, lacking any impetus to press onto corporate maturity, a self-fulfilling prophecy often happens: spiritual immaturity rules the day.

And this is where I believe things get interesting. Why must the Church press onto spiritual maturity? Because it is only a spiritually mature Church that will displace the principalities and powers during the tribulation period (See Revelation 12), and only such a Church can provoke unbelieving Israel unto jealousy at the end of the age (See Romans 11). And why must these things happen? Because without these things happening, there will be no return of Christ, and likewise, no resurrection from the dead. For as the Lord said to the Jews, "You shall not see me again until you say, 'Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.'" All of history, creation, and our Lord ultimately wait to hear that cry, and the Lord shall not return until such a cry is made.




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Jimmy H

 2010/8/17 12:55Profile
KingJimmy
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Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

p.s. For those of you who might be interested, I am in the progress of putting together a long over-due essay on the topic of the second coming of Christ and the last days. I hope to publish it this weekend on my website. It will probably be too long to post here on SI, unless I break it up into multiple posts.


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Jimmy H

 2010/8/17 14:09Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2094
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

KingJimmy wrote:

Quote:
No doubt, amillenialism naturally leads to a dominion theology that creates a theocractic state prior to the return of Christ. Thus, Christianity can become the official state religion, as it did in Rome, Great Britain, Spain, Germany, etc., and rules everything in the absence of Christ via popes, cardnials, and archbishops. Thus, you had the crusades, and when the reformation took place, land grabs and power struggles. All happened under an amillenial theology, a theology which by the way, pretty much declared the Great Commission over. Thus, even in light of the reformation, Luther and Calvin had no missionary desires, and that is why they used brute force to help spread their ideas.



Jimmy, it appears you have confused Postmillenialism with Amillenialism. Postmillenialism teaches that there has to be a world wide revival and Christianization before Christ comes back. Amillenialism says there is no such guarantee from Scripture, and it is unlikely. The Church is the suffering church militant, and yet triumphant through the word of their testimony and the blood of the Lamb.

As to the issue of the binding of Satan in Rev.20, Amillenialism points out the words of Jesus in Matt.12:29 where He speaks of the strong man(satan) being bound through His first coming and setting up the present spiritual kingdom of God(the church age)(see also Luke 10:18-19; Matt.18:18; Rev.12:7-12). Satan is bound in the sense that he can no longer deceive all the nations as he did before Christ's first coming. In the old covenant salvation was restricted to the Jewish nation. Now salvation has gone out to the ends of the earth. Everytime the gospel is proclaimed and sinner's are snatched from the kingdom of darkness and brought into the kingdom of God, satan is bound.

As to the issue of two peoples of God, reformed amillenialism does not teach that at all. It teaches what it calls "Expansion Theology", meaning that salvation was expanded to include the Gentiles after Christ death and resurection. The Church was grafted into Christ and became part of the true Israel of God(this is clear throughout Scripture). God has always had only one people of God, those who are of faith, the spiritual seed of Abraham.


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Oracio

 2010/8/17 15:02Profile
jimp
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

hi,after years of study i have come up with the most wierd escatology...what you would call heresy.i dont tell many what i believe and will not here but the Lord spoke to me one day and told me to take no thought of tomorrow and just live for Him today...wise virgin.jimp

 2010/8/17 15:17Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2094
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

jimp, it looks like you believe in panillennialism: it will all pan out in the end :)


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Oracio

 2010/8/17 16:14Profile





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