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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : A New Covenant

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The Sanai covenant is not the only covenant God has made that we know about. From Adam, in Gen. 3:15 until this very day, what has been happening is that each successive covenant has been a greater revelation of God's mercy and grace: His love towards all mankind.

In this day of potential grace recievable, there is a much higher accountability factor towards God than any other time in human history.

All covenants God made with man, from Adam through David, stood in existence as something promised, and thus were shadows of a solid reality yet to come.

For a covenant to be 'filfilled':

1st--> both parties must sever and bring themselves together through the sign of shedding former life, in the offering of one's blood;

2nd--> it must be ratified, enforced by both paritiesd as promised.

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From God's covenant with Adam (Gen. 3:15) to God's covenant with David (I Chron.17:7-14), these all awaited the Godward side of Him giving his own life and blood to bring them into effect. As well, these all awaited the perfect man it cut covenant with God so that these covenants could not be nullified in this "kosmos."

All covenants before the New Covenant were made 'fresh' and ratified for both man and God in Jesus Christ offering His Body for the life of the kosmos, and offering up His blood as the paid-price towards redemption.

Through Jesus' resurrection, we know that God was pleased and His Holy Spirit promised operates in ratifying all former covenants. This is appropriated by faith(fulness) towards God, which is a gift through God's grace:

7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph. 2:7-9

The above is the beginning yet not the completion.

...and as well, many ignore the verse following these verses, which was alluded to in the paragraph immediately above the passage just quoted. See that in this is indicated that we are partakers of all the covenants of God through doing what God affirms: the gift of Jesus faith(fulness) by 'immersion' into His Spirit.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenantS of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

All former covenants made by God were not anulled, but fulfilled in Jesus Christ.

If you are Christ's seed, you will in thought, word, and deed do as He is, through His power. This also places us in the position towards joint-heirship in Jesus Christ as we await adoption as God's children.

Jesus in enactment has made fully valid every covenant God has made with humanity.

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When Jesus Christ returns, it is then that the New Covenant shall become manifested in further and further fulfilment. By His physical presence, He shall enforce 'with a rod of iron' being the Sceptre of the Kingdom of God in heaven and on Earth. This will be the ratification in fulness of all covenants from God.

In Eph. 3 Paul clarifies what we come to understand of this '2nd' part, through the Holy Spirit, at present:

9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.

13 Wherefore I desire that ye faint not at my tribulations for you, which is your glory.

14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,

15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,

16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;

17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,

18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;

19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,

21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

 2010/8/1 11:42

Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710


When was the Incorruptable Seed birthed in the believer?

What seed was available to the Old Covenant?

It is either the seed of animal (blood) spirits or the Incorruptable Seed of the Spirit of Christ, (By His sacrificial Blood)in you the Hope of Glory.

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

1 Peter 1:13-25 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear: Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

Is the Incorruptable Seed brought to us now?

Is Christ's Seed in us now?

Are we born again Now?

Old, blood of animals, New, Blood of Christ.

Old, corruptible seed, New, Incorruptable Seed.

In Christ: Phillip


 2010/8/1 12:43Profile

Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 The Indwelling Christ

The theme of the indwelling Christ is one much loved of evangelical Christians. Over the years I have tried to understand the different stances of the one, two and three experience teachers. Their teaching on this topic has always left me dissatisfied.

"Christ in you, the hope of glory" is almost a definition of the New Covenant... but when are we to understand this crowning miracle to take place?

Let's think about the disciples of Jesus. Would it make sense to say 'Christ was in them'? Well, Christ was certainly 'with' them but how could he be 'in' them while he was limited to time and place by incarnation.

What about the Resurrection? Was 'Christ in them' as a result of the resurrection? Plainly not, sometimes he was with them and sometimes he was not with them. He certainly wasn't 'in them'.

What about the famous John 20:22 event when Christ breathed on the disciples? Was 'Christ in them' as a result of this experience? Clearly not because for some time later he was with them and sometimes not with them.

I have laboured this point because I think it is important. 'Christ in you' was not the experience of the believers during the time that Christ was on earth. So when did 'Christ in them' become their experience? The usual suspects are thinning out somewhat.

There are more substantial clues...

Was the Father in Christ and Christ in the Father while he was on earth? Yes, plainly...

"Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. 11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves." John 14:10–11 NKJV

These words speak of very great intimacy and union.

The 'in' word is then used daringly of another relationship...

"And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you." John 14:16–17 NKJV

see how this moves from 'with' to 'in'. The Spirit was going to come to live on the inside. And then speaking of the day of the Spirit's coming he says...

"In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you." John 14:20 NKJV

This is a direct promise of the 'Indwelling Christ' but the date on the promise is the day of Pentecost.

'The Indwelling Christ' was not the experience of the disciples until the Spirit came.

Ron Bailey

 2010/8/1 14:42Profile


by Christinyou on 2010/8/1 8:43:55

When was the Incorruptable Seed birthed in the believer?

What seed was available to the Old Covenant?

It is either the seed of animal (blood) spirits or the Incorruptable Seed of the Spirit of Christ, (By His sacrificial Blood)in you the Hope of Glory.
The incorruptible seed referred to is the Word of God, and not the propitiatory sacrafical blood paid towards redemption.

The living Word of God is made manifest to us as Jesus Christ, the incorruptible seed. God's scriptural testimony of Himself and regarding what man is and should be, through His revelation of the way, truth, and the life is the written manifestation of Jesus. Jesus is the physical reality of this.

This is what the passage in Peter is about, in stating, "...obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever."

"This too is what John is saying in his first letter:

Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. For whatsoever is born of God overcometh..."
1 Jn. 5:1-4

Jesus testified of these very things--

1. The scriptures are our Heavenly Father's testimony of Jesus.

2. He is the living example of God's Word in action.

3. That it is not any scripture that gives life, but the (Spirit of) the (Living)Word behind it--Himself.

Jesus said,"...the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me. And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not. Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
Jn. 5:36-40

Is the Incorruptable Seed brought to us now?
The incorruptible Seed created the world, living and abiding forever, the Ancient of Days, Jesus.

In the fullness of time He took on flesh, but as He says of himself, he has always been available:

"But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved... Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me...
Jn. 5:34, 39
Is Christ's Seed in us now?
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
Jn. 14:15-18

3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. 4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Jn. 15:2-5
Old, corruptible seed, New, Incorruptable Seed.

The books of Galatians and Hebrews address the issues of the order of priesthood and signs of covenant being altered and ratified through Jesus' finished work. To go back to these things is to put ourselves under law.

Jesus' sacrafice did the work of man and God once and for all time, presently eliminating the need for Levitical administration of anything.

Now, this Covenant is mediated through Jesus Christ, and He expects us of and from Him, to walk as He walked:

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Mt. 5:17-20

Blood is propitiatory towards atonement.

The body physically represents the habeas corpus (literally, "that you have the body ") is a writ, or legal action, through which a prisoner can be released from unlawful detention.

Note that the body is recieved before the blood in the Paschal memorial "love feast." (How can a person obtain blood without a body to get it from?)

(something has just been hinted about (towards later discussion...lacking the time to detail this now.))

Thinking in terms of body and blood, consider Romans 5:

1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; 4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope: 5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. 12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: 13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam’s transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. 15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. 16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. 17 For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) 18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. 20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: 21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Love, Hope, and Faith,

...I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears. And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.
Acts 20:31-32


 2010/8/1 15:40

 Re: The New Covenant - is the LIFE of Christ,

The old Covenant was faulty. Heb 8:7, "For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second."

The scarifies of the Old Covenant could never take away any sin - The scarifies only covered sin for a short period of time.
The Sacrifices had to be done over and over again because it was imperfect.
The Sacrifices did not cleanse the heart or remove any quilt and shame.
The Old Covenant did not produce holiness, or righteousness
Under the Old Covenant the heart of man was still desperately wicked.
The Old Covenant demanded Love but could never supply it
The Old Covenant did not offer Life and could never supply it.
The Old Covenant was broken by man's unfaithfulness.
The law could only kill and bring death.

The New Covenant took away ALL sin once and for all.
The sacrifice of Christ only had to done once because it was a perfect sacrifice.
The sacrifice of Christ made the person forever perfect and it completely cleansed the heart and removed all quilt and shame.
The New Covenant produced holiness and righteousness by giving us the very Life of Christ.
The New Covenant gave man a NEW heart.
The New Covenant gave man the LOVE that was required under the old.
The New Covenant - is the LIFE of Christ, Himself living and dwelling within us.
The New Covenant depends on God's faithfulness.

I once had a couch that was old and smelly and rotten. Well I covered this couch up and for a short time it did look better. The problem was that the couch itself was still rotten and smelly. No matter how many times I covered it - this fact remained.

Well I solved the problem once and for all by destroying the old couch and getting a brand new couch.

In a way that is what Christ has already done. He destroyed my old rotten and smelly heart and replaced it with His Heart and Life.

 2010/8/1 19:06

Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710


Who is the living Word?

John 1:1-12 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

How can anyone be a son unless he be birthed with the Seed of the Father, He who is Christ that is in us.

We are baptized into the Holy Spirit by Christ, Christ is not the Holy Spirit. Yet we are baptized into One Spirit, the Three in One. The Spirit of Christ the Son, the Spirit of the Father and the Holy Spirit, They are One, manifest in three different applications to our birthing, The Fathers Seed, The Seed Himself, Jesus Christ and The Teacher of this mystery, The Holy Spirit.

Answer, Jesus Christ is the Word, He is the Incorruptable Seed we are born again with and in. Christ in you, and you in Christ.

In Christ: Phillip


 2010/8/1 19:22Profile

Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710


Amen tuc


 2010/8/1 19:24Profile

Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710


Quote: ""It is either the seed of animal (blood) spirits or the Incorruptable Seed of the Spirit of Christ, (By His sacrificial Blood)in you the Hope of Glory.
The incorruptible seed referred to is the Word of God, and not the propitiatory sacrafical blood paid towards redemption.""

Maybe my punctuation is not right; Jesus Christ is the Incorruptable Seed not the Blood. The Blood is the Sacrifice, the only sacrifice God will accept for the sin of the world. It is not the Blood that is Seed but the Seed of the Father, which is Jesus Christ.

Without this Seed we are none of His.
Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His.

The explanation of 8:9; Romans 8:10-15 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of Him (The Holy Spirit) that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by His Spirit (spirit of Christ)that dwelleth in you. Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

Christ the New Life, a new living Creature, Powered by the Spirit of God, the Holy Spirit, our teacher and One who teaches us all that Christ is and says to the Believer.


 2010/8/1 19:47Profile

 kind of brazen...dont you think?

you wrote:

"Well I solved the problem once and for all by destroying the old couch and getting a brand new couch"

sir, comparing God's Holy Word, the Bible, Scripture, both Old and New Testament.....comparing THE WORD to "an old smelly couch" in need of being tossed out, strikes me as a most inappropriate usage of metaphors.

Almost brazen. i've been following this thread with a half an eye, half of my RAM, it just got kind of boring to me, but if brothers and sisters sharpen and profit thru such dialogue, Bless God!!

To me, as the Holy Spirit speaks, there's no real dividing lines, from Genesis 1 to Revelations 22, God is truly marvelous, grafted all you Gentiles into His Branch, and that is Wonderful...i mean that.

so rejoice in that Good News, and dont get cocky, or is it too late for that? (im smiling)

in Jesus love, neil

 2010/8/1 19:56


by Christinyou on 2010/8/1 15:22:03

Christ is not the Holy Spirit.
oh really?

(If you want to debate this start another thread.)

God said, "My people shall know my name."

Holy is an adjective.

Spirit is an impersonal noun.

Holy Spirit is a title and not His name.

What is the name of the Holy Spirit?

...and while you are at it, please explain what this verse means:
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
II Cor. 3:17

Phillip, either you and tuc and you have not been reading this whole thread or you have just completely ignored several salient points.

This issue was brought up at the onset with Ron, yet we did not go there.


 2010/8/1 22:12

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