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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Does anyone know of a solid biblical response to MacArthur's sermons on tongues and spiritual gifts?

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Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re: a house fitly joined together

Hi again everyone.

I left saturday morning to go for a walk which is my custom to do. Lately I've become pretty routine about the route I take(which is also a habit of mine, to fall into routines).

Anyway, after I left and was on my way I started to think about where I would get off the train. I'd been getting off at the same place for several weeks now, but this time it came into my mind to get off at a certain stop and to go down a certain street that I had never been down before.

So, after debating about it for a bit, I did.

Now, the reason I'm mentioning this here is because from the time I started walking down this street, one thing stood out to me: nearly all of the stores there had something to do... are you ready... with building. Carpentry, masonry, windows, electrical, you name it. One after another as far as I went down this street, the majority of the stores had something to do, with building. And there was quite a bit of activity, though none of it seemed related from one store to the other. people going here or there, or loading this or that.

I couldn't help but think of that and the discussion that we had here.

Well, eventually I turned around and started walking back, but my exploring wasn't done yet, and, crossing the street I continued to walk, with no purposefull direction in mind, just going and turning here or there as I thought I should.

After quite a walk I ended up at a place familiar to me called Rittenhouse Square(named for a descendant of William Rittenhouse, the first preacher of the Mennonite congregation of the settlement of Germantown).

After spending some time taking some photographs of a sculpture that I'm especially fond of, I decided to leave and heading out it came into mind to go into a certain old historic church nearby to see if I could take some photographs.

A minister(I assume he was a minister of the congregation) said I was allowed to take pictures and so I did, and maybe spent half and hour doing so.

Something I noticed while I was taking pictures was a small group that had assembled there. I gathered from their discussion that they had met to go over the details of a baptismal cerimony that was to take place. Now, I wasn't purposefully listening to them, but what stood out to me as I overheard them was just how regimented, ordered, and structured the whole thing was to be.

Everyone was to know what was to happen, when it was to happen, and what they were supposed to say.

I suppose that, taking the begining of this journey and comparing it with the end, some of us with a Pentecostal background might see quite a difference, by way of comparison.

Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2010/5/23 19:09Profile


Thanks snuf but I cannot find the sermon with the reference you gave. Can you tell me who it is and which sermon please? Thanks.

Following the quotation from Herr Lohmann, Jessie Penn-Lewis has added this note which might have been lost in the long text and which is very significant :

"The light given By Herr Lohmann will open the eyes of many perplexed believers and give them intelligent undertstanding of much that has distressed them and caused painful divisions among the most devoted of God`s children. It will also confirm the statements we have concerning the working of evil spirits in the circumference of the believer, at the very same time that, up to the extent of his consciousness, he may know nothing against himself before the Lord, for Satan and his emissaries are well aware of the laws of the human frame, and work along their line, arousing and exciting the natural life under the guise of being spiritual.

The false conception of "surrender" as yielding the body to supernatural power, with the mind ceasing to act is the highest subtlety of the enemy, and is exposed as such in this book for it brings about - as Herr Lohmann explains, the paralysis of the `cerebal` systems ie the the action of the mind and allows the vegetative nerves full control and activity, excited by evil spirits for the Holy Spirit DWELLS IN AND ACTS THROUGH THE SPIRIT OF MAN and not through either nerve centre, which have to be under the control of the spirit of man.

We have also pointed out that claiming the Blood cannot protect us from the enemy if any way he has been given ground, eg if the cerebal nerves cease to act by letting the mind go blank, and the vegetative nerves are awakened to act in their place (awakening the kundulini? Brenda)so that the latter are excited to give thrills and streams of life through the body, no claiming of the precious Blood of Jesus will prevent these physical laws acting when the condition for their actions are fulfilled.

Hence the strange fact that has perplexed many that abnormal experiences manifestly contrary to the Spirit of God have taken place whilst the person was eanestly repeating words about the Blood. Moreover, the arousing of the vegetative nerves, to such an abnormal activity that `floods of life` have appeared to flood through the whole body, the enemy whispering at the same time `this is divine`

1 dulls the mind and makes it inert in action

2 causes a craving in the recpient for more of this `divine life`

3 leads to the danger of the ministration of it to others, and all that follow as this path is pursued in honest faith and confidence of being `specially advanced` in the life of God

Should any reading this discover their own case depicted let them think God for knowledge of truth and :

1 simply reject by an attitude of the will all that is not of God

2 consent to trust God in His word without any `experiences`

3 stand on Romans 6:11 and James 4:7 in respect of the Adversary, John 16:13, `Through the Eternal Spirit`"

This information seems to have been excluded even from copies which claim to be the full text of the book, so you can come to your own conclusions about the honesty of the claim.

 2010/5/24 2:24


I Cor. 14:1, 2; 8:1, 2, 3; 2:14; 1:25

Prov. 27:5, 6, 9, 26:1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12


That being an answer towards Johnny Mac's stance:

Those who focus on the works of satan -whether of hirself or hir minion consorts, the flesh, or the world- are not walking in love. These are walking in fear and believe that the adversary is more powerful than our God who is sovereign and our supreme potentate.

To those who say to avoid experience, ask if they experience the salvation experience.

The Holy Spirit lusts against the flesh, and tongues are a clear manifestation of this, as is every expression of prophecy.

To think it is not right in ones head, through human rationalization or ungodly fear, steps beyond even a fool. Prov. 26:12

Exalting reasoning above God saving the whole man: spirit and souls and body (I Thess 5:23), and His Spirit's work in accord with this, is abiding in mere worldly rudiments. (Some of the best theologians were and are godless.) Anybody can use their mind, but not everybody can walk in the Spirit.

All the gifts of the Spirit exist and are active now, whether they be manifestations or fruit.

To say that any of the gifts of the Spirit have ceased is saying God is a liar. This walks the razor's edge in blaspheming the Holy Spirit and we know that nobody who lies against the truth of our unchanging God has eternal life. (WATCH OUT or be cut off.)

If the gifts -(all of them)- are not EXPERIENCED by today's Christian, the Bible is a book of lies, even as the one who breathed it out is a baldfaced liar.

These who ever believe that God has changed, leave them alone.

Pray for them, that they quite bowing down and worshipping the idols of intellect and reason. There is no hope for them apart from God removing the stumbling blocks. Pray for God to break their hearts, so that they see and hear what the Spirit says without their ability to worship their idols of intellections.

These are appointed first to be cast in the lake of fire: Rev. 21:8

For him who has ears to hear, let him hear what the Spirit says.

Rom. 3:3, 4

Amen and Amen.

In Him,
by Him,
through Him,
and for Him:

Acts 20:32

"The kingdom then is not for weaklings, waverers, and compromisers... It is not for Balaam, the rich young ruler, Pilate, and Demas... It is not won by means of deferred prayers, unfulfilled promises, broken resolutions and hesitant testimonies. It is for strong and sturdy men like Joseph, Nathan, Elijah, Daniel, Mordecai, and Peter... Stephen... and Paul. And let us not forget such valiant women as Ruth, Deborah, Esther, and Lydia"
~William Hendrickson~

 2010/5/24 7:05

Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3433
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re: a house fitly joined together

I suppose that, taking the begining of this journey and comparing it with the end, some of us with a Pentecostal background might see quite a difference, by way of comparison.

I understood and thought it was a very good journey. If we keep our eyes and ears open, the Lord can teach us anywhere!

God bless


 2010/5/24 7:49Profile

Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2012
Joplin, Missouri


Extract from a book published in Germany by Pastor Ernst Lohmann Translated from the German.

Thought I would put forth a thought to chew on.

It seems to me that Mr. Lohmann is putting forth an argument that if there is any element of supernatural manifestation it must be the result of demonic powers. He even says it is self-evident that healings, miracles, tongues, etc. are of the enemy, and not of God. But I would like to make a couple of important scriptural observations.

Mr. Lohmann's is using arguments alone to support his point of view. This is exactly the opposite of what Paul the Apostle speaks of. He said in 2 Cor. that he came to the Corinthian church, not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but with demonstration (Greek manifestations) of the Spirit and power (Greek dunimas, the miracle working power of God). Paul several times in the NT says that the very mark and proof that his words were from God were the accompanying manifestations, signs and wonders if you will. In fact, at one point he implies that if he with demonstration and others with arguments of words were to come head to head on the thing, the one who demonstrates the power of God is the one who should be allowed to speak. Jesus said He confirms the preaching of His word with signs, manifestations of the Holy Spirit. Seems to me Mr. Lohmann is making an argument against scriptural precedent.

It seems even more strange to me that Mr. Lohmann would paint a picture of the demonic realm as overflowing with demonstration of power through manifestation and the Holy Spirit as doing no such thing, especially when even a cursory examination of the New Testament will show the manifestations of the Holy Spirit through gifts of the Spirit, healings, miracles, tongues, etc. in abundance, and the manifestations of the enemy as lesser in number, power, and easily defeated by a man who is filled with the Holy Spirit.

Just some things to consider when weighing the man's words.


 2010/5/24 12:35Profile

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