When did they cast those lots brother? And please show me where God sanctioned that they do so.

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Jeremiah Dusenberry

Alreadymind:


Acts 1:23-26 is where lots were cast. I don't find anything in the passages of an explicit sanction by God for the casting of lots. However, since God did not reject Matthias as the 12th apostle and since the choice by lots is included by the Holy Spirit without correction or admonition, I would say it is safe to assume He sanctioned the choice by lots. I'm more comfortable saying that than assuming it was not sanctioned from the text.

Now that is an answer I can completely respect brother. Thank you. It is my personal opinion that the timing of the choosing of Mathias is Pre-New Covenant. When the Holy Spirit fell upon the Church things changed. The ante was upped. It was a game changer. This had not happened yet when the disciples cast lots.

I would also encourage you to re-read what I said. Nowhere in my response did I say that God "Never" controls dust motes.

Jesus calmed the waves, God controlled the Dew. God makes the mountains skip as an hart. My words were carefully chosen. There is a huge difference between dust randomly floating through the air, and God coalescing those dust motes to His intention and purpose, a.k.a. man. The two ideas are completely separate. One does not negate the other.

If you feel that my dealing with the issues one at a time in relation to the video were bad conclusions, I encourage you to lay the axe to the root of the tree. If, however, I am right that improper exegesis was used, and words were added to the scriptures, then I think that should be acknowledged brother.

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Jeremiah Dusenberry

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Jimmy H

I had a fascinating thought this morning meditating on this subject: God is the author and finisher of our faith, not our sin.

My two cents.

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Jimmy H

Jimmy, I regretted my use of the phrase New Covenant the instant I hit submit. Pentecost was a filling up of things. I believe that if someone cast lots in faith, God would honor it, on principle it is not a doctrine advocated anywhere in the Epistles. Just like I don't think taking one view of whether or not Gideon should have put out a fleece. I take a third route and believe that God was gracious to condescend to Gideon's weak faith. There are no formula's to faith.

This type of discussion is where rightly dividing and handling scripture is a knife's edge. Narrative is tricky. I like how Ron Bailey always says that the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. Building theological structures from weak evidence, arguing from silence, and assuming a non-salient assertion is enough to write an entire theology is what I am determined to share with the brothers as wrong.

I am trying to point out that narrative is not always safe to build doctrines on. Again I am trying to choose my words carefully.

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Jeremiah Dusenberry

"I had a fascinating thought this morning meditating on this subject: God is the author and finisher of our faith, not our sin."

AMEN!!!

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Jeremiah Dusenberry

"I would draw your attention to start with that when Dr. Piper referred to Acts 2:23, He inserted the names of Herod, and Pilate. The verse speaks generally about God's plan and foreknowledge. It does not mention names. In other words, it was in fact pre-ordained that Christ would suffer, but there is nothing in that passage that says that God particularly ordained Pilate or Herod, or any particular other Human being to be the one who committed the "greatest sin ever." "

Piper here was referring to Acts 4:27-28:

27 “For truly against Your holy Servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the people of Israel, were gathered together 28 to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose determined before to be done."

"Spurgeon has no authority from scripture anywhere to suggest that God pre-determines where a dust mote floats. Having taken calculus based physics, and having read the Bible numerous times I have not found a verse anywhere that says God micro-manages each particle collision, I would be keeping my antennae up for such statements, yet I have read theologians on numerous occasions make such statements. The thought is purely philosophical. And I believe stems from Greek oriented fatalistic philosophy."

I believe Spurgeon (and others) draw such conclusions from such texts as Col. 1 and Heb. 1, among others.

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Paul