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ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534
Mississippi

 Re: Women abuse husbands

Brenda, after rereading my post, I got to thinking more about female abusers. They exist. Let me tell you a couple stories...

My husband's grandfather was widowed and in due time he remarried. He was warned by acquaintances to not marry this woman because she had a bad reputation for being mean. But he did not believe anyone could be as mean as she was reputed to be.

Monie married Mattie and he found out she was every bit as bad if not worse then it was rumored. The worse thing she did (that I know of) is she got so angry with her daughter she pulled a braid out of her head! This daughter since then always had emotional problems. Matt was a very religious woman. I asked my husband's aunts why the preachers did not intervened in this situation. They said they tried but nothing worked. Since she was a religious person it did befuddle people who were not close to the family. Towards the end of grandpa's life he was removed from his home, away from his wife because the children feared for his life! (BTW, her first husband died under mysterious circumstances. The saying was that she died in a hunting accident. Others now wonder if she did not have something to do with it.)

Another:
Ten years ago I witnessed/heard an abusive situation. I was working for the US Census Bureau and working on the field. The man was a nice, cooperative person, but his wife (or friend) was ugly and treated him badly. The sounds that came through the walls were not happy sounds. The neighbors talked about how she treated him...

Another:
My paternal grandfather was an abusive man. He talked mean to his wife, and one son. This son joined the army during WW2. While he was gone grandfather wrote him a letter asking him for forgiveness. Uncle survived the war and when he came home his dad grabbed him and hugged him, kissed him. Today when uncle shares this story he will still tear up.

Brenda, when people do not walk with the LORD all kinds of evils are possible, females are no exception. Everyone with in their circle acquaintances can become a victim.

I am so glad God can restore and make things new...! PTL

ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2010/4/28 14:35Profile
Ceri
Member



Joined: 2008/10/17
Posts: 113
Notts. England.

 Re:

Brenda
My heart went out to you reading your post.
Please believe me that there are men out there fighting abuse, there are men wanting to stamp out rape.
When I worked for the Police I went on a course in abuse and the lecturer apologised to any Chrsitians present saying that hte church is the number one offender. However two years ago when I came finally came forward as a victim of abuse and rape for eight years by a deacon at our church, the detective allocated to my case told me that it isn't that the church is the number one offender of abuse - but the church is the number one target for offenders! which puts a different slant on it.

This is due to the atmosphere of love and trust we have for each other - the fact that there is a fear of judging people in the church - not wanting to be seen as gossiping about people. My abuser could groom me quite openly in church and in front of church people as no-one would ever question his motives or believed any thing like that could ever happen in our church!

While going through the police investigation the most vicious flack came from other women!! while my church leadership and men who were the abusers best friends, until I came forward, showed me much love and care. One deacon in particular was my rock and supported the leadership through - even after discovering that his own daughter was also a victim of his best friend!!

A lot of changes have now been made as a result of my case and we have child protection officers and all childrens staff are vetted.

I would recommend that you check out a British Christian organisation called 'Churches child protection advisory service' - known as C.C.P.A.S. They run a helpline, bookstore and information, travel around training church leaderships in issues of abuse, domestic violence, and other issues. Our denomination has now set up a national representative for CCPAS - a lovely young man, who keeps in touch with me. One of our church members also works for them. CCPAS after reading my testimony of how God brought me through this time in an amazing and miraculous way are now publishing my testimony as a powerful weapon in the fight against abuse in the chuch.

It is true Brenda the church does back off from such issuesa nd there is inexperience and lack of knowledge in dealing with victims of abuse - but here is a change happening and a growing awareness.

Leaderships do need to take stock and face up to this and place safe guarding means in place - In churches in Britain this is happening on a wide scale now and the issue is being dealt with seriously and openly which is why I can now talk openly about my past and people are being set free.
Take heart Brenda - God is exposing the rot - I lived on Psalm 139 all those years in that God was seeing everything and He would say to him 'right this is it - no further, the things done in secret will be shouted from the roof tops!! Would like to share more with you.

Abuse and domestic violence could fill a new thread I fear.


_________________
Ceri Elaine

 2010/4/28 21:19Profile









 Re: cmon Miccah

( quote) Let me tell you something, i might have told you, that in my tent=making writing, i've had to do a crash course in islamic theology, and how that relates to "jihad". You know what i found? "fundamentalistic" Christianity (protestant) and "fundamnetalistic" Islam are mirror images of each other, the difference being those boys arent afraid to murder and kill, they have a "Cal/Arm" debate going. Shia is like the RCC and the Sunni's are like the Protestants, and they love to whack each other for "heresy".(quote)

  It is funny you said that because that is exactly what the Strategic foresight Group said when they introduced the Alliance of Civilzations . The only difference was they said that evangelical and protestant fundamentalist along with radical Islam were an enemy of Civilzation and should be extinguished. It almost sounds like you are ready to join
the fight? Matt. 24&25 Brothers and sisters we need oil
in our jars if we can not be patient through this how in
the world would we be able to walk through persecution un offended like Steven in the book of acts. May we not to be found to have fallen short of God's rest Hebrews 4 

 2010/4/28 23:56









 Re: Question

This is a very strong case you have made on
the word of God . Thank you for the time you spent on it . Does this mean women can not even sing on the worship team ???

 2010/4/29 0:29









 Re:

Ceri

I was very much encouraged by your post - maybe misogynism and domestic violence in the church will be the next thing in the media after the child sex scandal, though it is possibly less of a problem in evangelicalism. My own son was abused by a United Reformed minister who was running an amateur dramatics group along with a lot of other boys and is now in prison. I am not campaigning against this though, if you can call it that, as it is already known about from the media coverage and my own interest is abuse in evangelical circles. Thanks I read up on the CCPAS and see they are doing good work. I know some ministers in the US are actively trying to educate the church about the influence of misogynism. The world should be able to look at the true church of God and see that the men in it are treating their women in a way that convicts their own attitudes but that does not happen despite scriptural commands that we love each another. Maybe the verse is thinking of this. If the world`s women see that Christian men treat their own women in a Christ sacrificing way they would flock to the churches in order to scoop one for themseves and at least hear the gospel.

Yes ginny I am angry all right as anyone would be at what is being ignored and it is typical that bringing up the matter will trigger denial, attack towards the carrier of the message and attempts at defamation of her or his character (I am being unforgiving and therefore angry)and a misinterpretation of what they are saying. I have not felt it necessary to state the case that there are female abusers in the world and the church, I thought that would be obvious. Pointing to it however, does not excuse the much much greater numbers of women that suffer from male abuse even in subtle ways like her needs not being met. It is interesting that Muslim women will defend the veil and the way their religion treats women. In psychological terms it is called Stockholm Syndrome. I guess they don`t want to face the truth as the marriage is all they have. However they are dragging their sisters down with them by not facing the truth.

I have forgiven my abusers and through it able hopefully to serve my brethren, men and women by exposing this evil wherever I see it raise its ugly head like on this thread. The issue is very much to do with the subject of the thread and in the manner that Paul is interpreted over the
treatment of women. We are to submit to EACH OTHER.

Brenda

 2010/4/29 1:41
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534
Mississippi

 Re:

Brenda,

I checked out the definition of misogynism and found it to mean: an extreme dislike of females, frequently based upon unhappy experience or upbringing.

My first response was "why do they dislike females so much?" But the definition indicates it is because of experience or upbringing. Therein lies your answer, Brenda.

What did females do to evoke such an extreme dislike for them?

Now if you want to talk about sexual abuse perpetrated by males against the innocent, you must also remember females do it as well. But in the church?

What church do you go to? The church consists of blood washed saints. There is a popular social club out there that calls itself the 'church' but it ain't. It is no gathering of righteous people: it is a gathering of unregenerate folks who use religion to soothe an
otherwise defiled conscience.

There are so many people in worldly 'churches' that have little concept of holiness and purity. Fornication is regretted but can't do anything about it. People are mesmerized by filth that comes into their homes via the tube and internet. They may talk about how bad it is but are powerless to do anything about it and why is this?

It is because people do not know the LORD. They have no clue what it means to walk with him in all purity and holiness via obedience. Would you know the worse clients I had in terms of immodesty (a minister's wife, no less) and rebellion were people from the Assembly of God/Pentecostal churches?

Religion won't cut it but Jesus does.

If you are in a church that tolerates fornication, adultery what else can you expect? Paul says to 'not let it once be named among you'. And how often is once? In my neck of the woods it means 'one' - how about yours? why do you differentiate between fornication among lovers and those initiated by adults towards children? Do you not know that a behaviour begun elsewheres will also eventually afflict the young, the innocent?

Brenda, this issue is not just a male issue. All - males AND females - have contributed to it. To be angry at males only and not understand how females' conduct may have contributed to it is hiding your head in the sand and ignoring the obvious. It is also the method the feminist agenda uses to bash males.

Brenda wrote:

"I have not felt it necessary to state the case that there are female abusers in the world and the church, I thought that would be obvious."

Brenda, you were bashing submission to males. From your post there is no indication given that you were even aware of it.

Brenda wrote:
"If the world`s women see that Christian men treat their own women in a Christ sacrificing way they would flock to the churches in order to scoop one for themselves."

This would worry me much: I would not like it if a female would come to our church with the express purpose of snagging a husband and not being regenerated. BTW, it is also known that there are more females in the church then males.

In all, I am so sorry your son was abused by a male. I know full well the damage this will inflict upon a person.. BUT the blood of Jesus Christ can cleanse him. His blood had healed others and he can be cleansed as well. Psychology cannot fix it. Only God can. And you must also get rid of your anger because it contaminates your life as well.

Blessings,
ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2010/4/29 8:16Profile









 Re:

Here are two Evangelical sources of information, one is a ministry to fight domestic violence in the church.

http://www.marriagemissions.com/you-and-your-church-can-fight-against-domestic-violence/

http://www.herald-of-hope.org/jcastle2.html

By far the majority of cases of violence is male against female. The numbers of men who are abused is small although many may feel they receive the `cut of the tongue` and some may think that it is equally true of both sexes. However, the real aim of men who bully physically and mentally, is for control through fear. It is rather silly to think that a man who on average is multiple times stronger than a female of the same size (though I am sure that someone is going to bring up a site complaining about female wrestlers who bully men,) who can be controlled because he is afraid of a beating when he only has to extend his arm to stop it.

I have brought this subject up because it shows very well how much misogynism exists in the church as women who go to their pastors invariably receive scant understanding and are often more damaged by telling him about it as many women recount with great sorrow. Some are peruaded to stay and continue to be beaten.

It is the misogyistic view that if the man punches or even rapes a woman then she must have deserved it. This is deeply entrenched not only in males but in females. He gets away with things but she is blamed. She is a slag if she has sex outside of marriage but he is sowing his wild oats. It goes back to the fall - Adam blamed the woman.

This however should not be allowed to happen in the church. There should be no discrimination towards anybody but there is. This one is kept quiet though and it has been demonstrated that even women will deny it - despite the fact that there are ministries to combat it.

It is so easy to bleat out that it is the fault of women as well as men but the fact is that young boys are poisoned at a very young age with the fallacies I have already mentioned and many more. It is not their fault that they are infected with this poison but most males do get brainwashed into it. One has only to look on some sites to see it in its full manifestation and its view of women as no more than sex objects. Even though good Christian men will object to this extremity, they will fail to see the insiduous effects in their own thinking.

It does not happen to females in any where near the same degree though they are exposed to equally damaging sound bites such as `men are only after one thing` but this is usually later on in their teens. The damage done to boys is much worse and they grow up fearing the female sex as well as desiring them. It causes men to close their hearts to the female sex and they shut down emotionally to them. It often takes a loving wife for the damage to heal.

This is what Christian agencies want to address, the re-education of men so that they see when they have had their faulty views formed.

ginnyrose I will not be repeating things I have already said. I would just like to request that my salvation is not repeatedly questioned.

Brenda





 2010/4/29 9:40









 Re:

HI Brenda,

I have been following this part of the thread with interest. I am well versed in men abusing woman. I grew up with an alcoholic father who beat my mother countless times. She has so many black eyes, and even had her jaw broken one time. She was abused mentally and physically and in Scotland, where I was born and raised, this has always been a major problem. It breaks my heart and angers me every time I hear of a woman who has or is being abused. I know the generational damage that it does to familes and it certainly is like a cancer or a poisen.

I think the problem that you may be having on this site is that you speak in terms of "The Church." Or "Christianity," yo speak in broad strokes which would not be well understood in America. On this site, and I would include myself in this, we have very clear views of what it means to be a Christian. You mentioned in an earlier post about the church that had problems with sex abuse of children, I am assuming you were reffering to the Roman Catholic church. Well, most on this site(sorry guys if I do not speak for you) would consider the Catholic church as a religious institution and not a part of the Body of Christ. So, when you make continued referece to "the church," I think you are causing confusion amongst many, perhaps you could give us your definition of what that means to you?

Can I suggest that the prolems that you are raising are societies problems and I totally agree with most of what you say if it is in the context of society at large and religious institutions. Yet in your last post you wrote this ........

"This is what Christian agencies want to address, the re-education of men so that they see when they have had their faulty views formed."

I think this kind of statement will not bring clarification to what you are trying to say, or maybe it represents exactly what you are trying to convey? I would imagine that there are very few people on this site who believe that the answer to the cancer of the soul which, in your case would be the abuse of woman, would be "re-education." Abuse of woman knows no social boundaries. It effects the educated and the uneducated because it is exactly what it is, its the effect of sin. Yes, sin. Sin at its root, not a lack of understanding. All the understanding in the world will not help these men, only Jesus can. This is the answer of "The Church." This is the one and only answer. If society at large has a problem in this area, and I believe that you are correct, then the only answer is Jesus Christ and HIm crucified. Its re-generation and sanctification that brings about change, real change, eternal change. My father came to Christ at the age of 49, 21 years ago and the beatings stopped immediately as did the drinking. Christ was victorious and had broken the chains that had enslaved by fathers family for countless generations. I know that his father and his fathers father had been an alcoholic and abusers and I can only imagine how far this went back in that family. Yet, praise the Lord Jesus Christ the chains of darkness and the generational curse had been broken, not by might, nor by power nor by re-education, but by the Spirit of the Lord changing a man from the inside out.

Brenda, I pray that you are healed completely and your son too. There is one source for this kind of healing, one alone, and His name is Jesus. I know that you have my prayers and the prayers of many of the saints on this site, many of them awesome men of God..........brother Frank

 2010/4/29 10:18
wind_blows
Member



Joined: 2009/1/4
Posts: 353


 Re:

Quote:
I think the problem that you may be having on this site is that you speak in terms of "The Church." Or "Christianity," yo speak in broad strokes which would not be well understood in America. On this site, and I would include myself in this, we have very clear views of what it means to be a Christian. You mentioned in an earlier post about the church that had problems with sex abuse of children, I am assuming you were reffering to the Roman Catholic church. Well, most on this site(sorry guys if I do not speak for you) would consider the Catholic church as a religious institution and not a part of the Body of Christ. So, when you make continued referece to "the church," I think you are causing confusion amongst many, perhaps you could give us your definition of what that means to you?


_______________
I think this is a great point Frank. You hit on many of what my thoughts were this morning as well.

_______________
Brenda: I do want to understand where your coming from so let me ask you, you said we are to submit to each other? The Bible does teach that I wife is to submit to her husband as the head of the house hold(my husband believes this, as do I) and that the husband is to love his wife as Christ loves the church.My husband and I both believe this to be true and in our marriage through Christ Jesus we both now walk in this truth. Is this your understanding as well of what a Biblical marriage is? IF a husband does not love his wife as himself, then he would be in sin, just as a wife who is unwilling to lovingly submit to her husband is in sin. I think sadly there are those in both camps who abuse this verse for their selfish desires but when both husband and wife are walking with the Lord this kind of love and care for one another will make a marriage strong and a blessing:)
Ephesians 5:22-33 (22 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body. 24 Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything.
25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her)

I will also be praying for your family to continued to be healed in Christ Jesus.

in Him
ellie

 2010/4/29 10:52Profile









 (forgive me sisters) this is to dmoney.

Again, i beg indulgence of my sisters for veering off topic a wee bit, i'll try to be short.

"Dee", brother Dee, you might have got me wrong here in what i wrote about my studies into Islamic theology, and such theology having a mirror in aspects of Christianity.

The only reason i had to do a crash course in islamic theology, is to track and figure out, what in their religion impels them to wage this new war, this "jihad" of their's. What their complaints are, how they butress this murder, their theo-divisions.It's a "tent-making" job i have, strategy, a strategic outlook is to KNOW your adversary. and i can tell you this, they, what are called "IJ's" (islamic jihadists) are not monolithic. They want us to think they are in unity, but they are not, group after splinter group, sunni killing shia, killing salafi.etc

How they DON'T mirror our Faith (i didnt say "religion")

in Two very very important Aspects:

They DON'T have the 66 Books of our Bible. (they have the Koran, which i put in the same class as the "book of mormon")

and they DON'T have Jesus, Whose Blood cleanses all sin, nor God the Holy Ghost, our Helper, Who leds us into further sanctification.

but what we both have is "religious fussing" over disputable matters, that's what grieves me, as well as THEIR propensity to kill in the pursuit of "jihad", which is sin times infinity, as they will one day learn to their eternal horror.

last, secular global organizations, like this, "Strategic Foresight group", i pay little mind to, they are like buzzing flys to me, i just await the day, that the powers of this world make ownership of Bibles illegal, that's the day satan will make a crucial mistake, watch the church grow then! Glory!

like the bumper sticker about guns? "You can have my Bible, when you pry it out of my cold dead hands".

Know what i mean?

Thank you beloved sisters, sorry to veer off the path, i treasure you all in the Love of Jesus, neil

 2010/4/29 11:17





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