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Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : Days of Lot

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Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4548


This is extremely disappointing. I never listened to her music, although I once attended a Christian conference in Dallas where she was one of the singers. My wife told me that the K-Love Christian radio station used to play one of her songs. I guess that I wouldn't know her from many other singers in the CCM scene.

I read [url=]this article[/url] earlier, and I found it quite disappointing.

I pray that someone will continue to reach out to her with the truth in the love of Christ. I imagine that she is still conflicted between what is obvious in the Word of God and her emotional and/or sexual feelings. Perhaps the Lord can send someone who will open her eyes to the truth.


 2010/4/18 23:22Profile


Unfortunately the Christian music "business" is full of this stuff.

Ray Boltz who wrote "Thank You" (a VERY popular song in the church in the early 90's... especially for fund raising) came out as gay in 2008.

Larry Norman's entire life was one scandel after another.

Randy Stonehill just announced on his website in March that he and his 2nd wife are divorcing.

A long time ago there was a Christian band called White Heart whose lead singer was arrested for having sex with teen girls... and to make it worse... he was married.

Sandi Patti committed adultry.

Micheal English committed adultry.

The list is long and greivious.

This stuff has been going on for years. Some blame the music... I blame the church... for making idols of these people. Not excusing them for what they did, but the church provided the opportunities.

The church is guilty of idolatry, plain and simple.


 2010/4/19 17:17

Joined: 2009/11/11
Posts: 73


I miss Keith Green!

 2010/4/19 17:50Profile

 Re: Let's shed a tear, party on down, and sings songs of praise...

"I blame the church... for making idols of these people. Not excusing them for what they did, but the church provided the opportunities.

The church is guilty of idolatry, plain and simple."


Amen Krispy. Amy Grant; apostasy and divorce, and Bob Dylan too. They even had "Little Richard" prancing around on TBN!...complete with a two foot boufant pomopadour, glitter and so much eye makeup he reminded me of Elvira, Mistress of the Dark!...

As long as you praise the Lord, what else matters?

 2010/4/19 18:02

Joined: 2009/12/11
Posts: 212


so the emergent "grace" filled church has created a similar passage for all sodomites to practice their abominations sanctified before all.

Something that has been on my mind the last couple of days is kind of the polar opposite danger of these "grace" filled churches. I was listening to the Freedom compilations and trying not to cry when the thought struck me that all these testimonies were tear jerkers. They were all tragic stories. I got to thinking where are the stories of people who lived good, didn't drink, didn't smoke, didn't "browse" the internet and yet were just as lost as those who did do those things? Where are conversion testimonies of "good" people? We are saved through by grace through faith and not by works. There will be many people in hell who lived more compassionate lives than some Christians.

What is frightening to me about the emergent church's acceptance of sin is that people who don't sin on a regular basis are going to view themselves as a lock to get to heaven. And yet what may be their one sin is the same sin keeping all out of relationship with God, and that is unbelief. "Depart from Me, I never knew you".

How do you tell someone that they are dangling over the pit when they are "better" than most christians, and the homosexuals and adulterers are getting to heaven?


Matt Smith

 2010/4/26 12:40Profile

Joined: 2006/11/7
Posts: 1178


I had some friends a few years back that went to the dove awards and said they were all drinking and smoking and partying just like the world. They were highly disappointed, which say yes, we do make idols out of them.

The answer is of course, come out from amoung them and be ye separate, touch not the unclean thing.

We are called to worship God in spirit and truth. Do we make our voices ever so lovely, so people will hear it around us, or do we humble ourselves and worship so only God will hear it. It has become no different then the entertainment industry. While our fellow believes might be impressed by the grandeur of the sound, God only hears if the heart is right. He doesn't receive uncertain sounds.


 2010/4/26 15:33Profile

Joined: 2008/4/7
Posts: 797

 Re: Days of Lot and Days of Noah

Jennifer Knapp: “I think it’s going to be shocking and feel like a betrayal to some people who live their spiritual lives through the music they listen to,” Knapp told the LGBT publication.” Source:

PEOPLE WHO LIVE THEIR SPIRITUAL LIVES THROUGH THE MUSIC THEY LISTEN TOO: That is a very telling phrase. Perhaps this is another reason there is such a fight over admitting this “contemporary music” as praise and worship. There do seem to be whole radio stations devoted to this kind of music that do not play sermons at all. I thought that odd before reading the above quote. I wonder locally how many involved in the music of their churches are deep into the study of His Word. Knowing precedes understanding and obeying.

Neither grace nor salvation is just forgiveness. I wondered at how little acknowledgement was given in a previous revival conference to the definition of grace that was given as IMPARTED ENABLING. This definition, in contrast to the popular one, puts an end to “grace in the service of lawlessness.”

MaryJane”s question makes me shutter: “Was the christian music they wrote and sang about before ever really from the Lord or was all of it just a lie??” (who the author, what the anointing, missing pieces of the gospel). I am beginning to understand perspectives on this music that once seemed extreme.

And while all of this (DAYS OF LOT) is going on we have the oblivion of “AS IN THE DAYS OF NOAH”: churches meeting to debate the color of the carpet, guidelines for wedding and VBS decorations, pot lucks. Matthew 24:37-39 : “But as the days of Noe [were], so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,”

Over the past weeks threads on Swaggart, IHOP, Rick Warren, etc., along with this thread highlight to me want looks like a wide-spread sin we rarely discuss. Who/what is being lifted up? Who/what is being run after (followed). I think the same thing goes for this year's “prophet” and this year's “apostle.” How can running after IHOP be any different from running after Lakeland. I think the same way about LIFTING UP/RUNNING AFTER born-again believers that met with God in His Word and have something to say about it when the Saints gather (the one who preaches), or who have written out truths the Holy Spirit has revealed in their daily life (commentaries). I also sometimes wonder if many exchange a week of fellowship in the Word for a 30-60 minute sermon, thinking they benefit from another's labor. Is that attempted spiritual theft? (If you have noticed how stolen money quickly disappears, this could explain why few can recall what was preached.)

Just so there is no confusion, I understand being hungry for fellowship, in the unity of the Holy Spirit and finding it in books and tapes, in prayer and gatherings. Discerning the Body is a needful part of communion.

 2010/4/26 19:26Profile

Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7509



It seems to me the reason so many folks are snookered into the whorl of deception by ungodly folks is because we have become too infatuated with entertainment.

These professional entertainers know how to manipulate a crowd. The entire gambit of performance is to get your money and more the better.

Knowing all this, why do we find it appealing?


Sandra Miller

 2010/4/26 20:44Profile

Joined: 2007/1/15
Posts: 365


A.W. Tozer once said the Church is only as strong as her conception of God is.

I believe the Church is as strong as the music she listens to. For music, by its very nature, is passive education. You receive the outworking of the author's soul [and whatever else that contains] readily, with little resistance.

The enemy of our souls knows this, hence, the flood of fluffy, 'applesauce' love songs that do little to help a person or congregation worship the Lord, God Almighty.

May the Lord have mercy on Jennifer Knapp and us all. Let him that thinks he stands, take heed, lest he fall.


 2010/4/26 20:59Profile

Joined: 2009/5/15
Posts: 1042
Pacific Ocean


A.W. Tozer once said the Church is only as strong as her conception of God is.

This is so true Theophila. Our people are dying for a lack of knowledge. If we do not gnosis God, how dare we speak for Him? We can only articulate the things of God with power through an excellence of epignosis. Our concept of God as American Christians has fallen out the front door, slid down the driveway, into the gutter, and out into the wash. Where it is now foaming out its shame, crashing against the Pacific, and sloshing against the Atlantic seaboard.

The frothiness with which we have marketed God, as if he were to be dispensed in a Slurpee Machine at the corner 7-11, has reaped us such a cheap convenience store reward.

For a couple of days, I was starting to slightly regret posting this, because I did not want to see Jennifer harpooned when I did not really know enough of the specifics about the situation. Now having heard her side (on the Larry King live show through youtube) of the's open season to deal with the issues.

First off, Jennifer reveals what is in her heart as she over and over again trips over calling herself a "Person of Faith." If you notice when you watch it, she starts to defend calling herself a "Christian," on numerous occasions, but is unnable to complete the word. "Person of faith is far more nebulous and fits the Bill of a religious person, as opposed to a sheep who knows the voice of their shepherd.

Secondly, Jennifer's main justification for her behavior revolved around the fact that no one can accurately translate a "Sacred Holy Text." The greek words used, that we translate, "homosexual" or "effeminate," are not clear enough for us to be certain that we can lambaste homosexuals.

Let us just suppose for a moment that this is true...maybe that term is sketchy. The question that is raised in my mind is why have any discussion whatsoever that revolves around the use of scripture to either negate or defend such a lifestyle? The fact of the matter is that the whole conversation revolved, from her standpoint, around a book that no one is able to understand or to translate to her satisfaction! Why not just throw the book out? Again this leads me back to my questioning I started to pose halfway through the thread, why? Why not just deny the faith?

I saw that serpent Larry King, coil around Jennifer and caress her ignorance (willful or not I do not know) and fuel her lust as he asked a Pastor from Horizon Christian Fellowship whether or not God created Homosexuality. As if the existence of Sin justifies it in God's sight. God is NOT the author of sin, Romans 9:14 "What shall we say then? is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid." The questions Larry asked of the Pastor were nothing but a rusty old echo from his father...Genesis 3:1.

The Pastor Bob Botsford was wise to emphasize the woman caught in the act of Adultery and stating that he does in no way condemn her but Jesus told the woman to go and sin no more, however, Jennifer's rebutle was that Homosexuality is not clearly defined as a sin in the Bible.

Then Ted Haggard got on and turned the whole of Gods grace into a buffet gravy that covers every sin and we need God's grace because we all sin all day all the time all day long...and that is what he stated that grace was for.

Therein, the Slurpee is drunk, and evangelicalism is drunk on it...

Verily verily, "There are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ." Jude 4

Lastly, Spiros Zhodiates does a great job defining the greek words for effeminate and "abusers of themselves with mankind," 1Corinthians 6:9 as men of soft clothing who lie with one another in is pretty simple, even a fool can understand what the slang meant. Paul was often so ashamed of what people did in darkness that he said, "And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. (Which I hope we are doing here in the Spirit) For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret." Ephesians 5:11-12. Paul may have used slang to get his points across in 1 Corinthians because it was so shameful and reprehensible to even use the common terminology. This could also be why Paul was a bit vague in Galatians 2:4 when he says that "False brethren came in unawares brought in who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage." Here he is subtly saying that the Judaizers snuck into the bathroom to see if Titus was circumsized or not. Yet it is shameful to even speak of such things loudly or commonly.

Homosexuality is clearly a sin according to scripture but here is the catch, and here is why our sins as a nation are foaming against our shores...and here is why we need to repent...why I need to repent, and how God can begin the healing process if there is even hope that we have not started to see the great apostasy. Ezekiel 16:49 says, "Behold, this was the iniquity of they sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good." Wait a far down the list was "abomination?" Let me count...1 2 3 4 5th down! How many of us have repented of those first four sins? How many of us are seething with spiritual pride? How many of us waste innordinate amounts of time on pointlessness and mediocrity? How many of us glut ourselves and deny the poor their just due from Christian love? And yet we pompously declare homosexuals to be the scarlet letter bearers of our day.

We should all start wearing the scarlet letter "P" to our shame, and repent of such things. Even writing this, I struggle to admit my own failings. "If MY PEOPLE who are called by MY NAME shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land." 2Chronicles 7:14 Does this verse now have any new meaning for any of you? Does it have enough meaning for me?

O God help us...please we need you.

May we repent and begin singing Psalms, Hymns and Spiritual songs which flow from a deep well of repentance. May our roots run deep into the river of life, that we will not "walk in the counsel of the ungodly, nor stand in the way of sinners, nor sit in the seat of the scornful." Psalm 1:1

In the spirit of Art Katz I would say that the issue of a failed evangelicalism, is the issue of the remnant...and unless we as a people can apprehend intercessory repentance...we may just become complicit partakers of the wickedness of the daughter of Sodom! In that, we may be participant to the predecessor of abomination, as stated in the above verse from Ezekiel.

Jeremiah Dusenberry

 2010/4/26 23:22Profile

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