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Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


Someone told me the other day that if believers spent as much time praying in their secret place and sharing the love of Jesus with unbelievers outside in this world (and living their lives before them as the Children of God) as they do arguing and debating with one another in the Church, then there might be more testimonies worth sharing.


I agree less debates and more extending ourselves to others in His Holy name.

Really this world is passing away, let us be about His Kingdom. I have faith in God, He alone holds my trust and no other. Men will do what men will do, but my eyes they are focused on Him. No matter what the government does God is still in control and there is no fear for those who are in Christ Jesus.

God Bless

 2010/3/22 1:26Profile

Joined: 2005/7/20
Posts: 671
Los Angeles, California


all this hyperventilating over providing medical insurance to the least of wonder you dont see Revival. You sit at the feet of Herod, and at the feet of Caesar, the foot of empire, and the ways of rich men and their legions and ignore the cries of the widowed, and fatherless, the poor. Yet when Rome lies and says "to battle in Iraq", no one here said anything about whether such was righteous, no one counted up the trillion dollar cost the hundreds of thousands in lives lost. You'll side with those who spend TRILLIONS to wage an unwinnable war? and for those who need medical care...your scorn?

I usually refrain from expressing political views, but I just wanted to agree with you Neil! What a blessing it is to have a President is more concerned with spending our tax dollars for health care for the poor and saving people then for war and killing people! What a wonderful blessing and needed change in the dark world of American politics.


Patrick Ersig

 2010/3/22 1:42Profile

Joined: 2009/3/17
Posts: 308
Central Alberta, Canada


Democrats in the House needed 216 votes to pass the Senate's version of a sweeping health-care package Barack Obama has been pushing with all his presidential might.

They tallied 219.

[i]"The vote was certain after the House Democratic leadership finalized a deal this afternoon with anti-abortion Democrats to vote for the Senate-passed health care bill in exchange for an executive order from Obama affirming no federal funding for abortion."[/i]


 2010/3/22 2:11Profile

Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3426
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re: America denounces 'Obamacare' threat

I've always believed since the beginning of this that this was about more than health care, Christians need to start believing and practicing (exercising) 'praying in faith,' anointing with oil and laying hands on sick that they might be healed because many will have needs in the days and years to come. So many people are deceived into thinking that this health care bill is going to solve all their health problems... little do they know!!

I truly do NOT believe this is about "health care" per se; this is about trusting in the Lord for your health care!! A man (forget his name) used to go and watch the Lord perform huge miracles in third world countries and someone asked him why these miracles didn't happen in the USA; he said he believed it was our health care insurance. People ran to the doctor before they ever ran to the Lord.

So I'm thinking in the Old Testament where God would bring His people to their knees to cry out to Him.... that He is doing that again today except it's in America. That is a merciful God! And He's not doing this to make us all sick; He's doing this to bring glory to Himself.

God bless us all,

(edited for clarity)


 2010/3/22 6:33Profile

Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC


Saints, take comfort in these things. These are part of the economic judgments of God on our nation. We are bankrupt, ultimately, because we are bankrupt.

Jimmy H

 2010/3/22 6:47Profile

 My dear brother Patrick

for the past two and an half hours, i have been in the Book of Daniel. i say that not to boast, its just what i have been doing, prayerfully reading it, from chapters 5 thru 12, and i have been thinking and praying about what i wrote, i have been thinking and praying about the Church, the ekklesia, i have been thinking and praying about many of the precious saints whom i have come to know thru SI, and thinking and praying what happened in the earthly realm of politics, nation states....and as my heart and soul were canted towards Him, there was one saint who came into my soul and it was you God the Holy Ghost is my Witness, it was you, and it was these words in my heart, precisely, "Patrick walks the Talk", my brother Patrick day by day, with his family, preaches the Gospel, feeds the hungry, clothes the naked and in the WORST places one can find in this diaspora we live in, skid row Los Angeles, truly where the devil has gone to roost, anybody who knows LA, knows how terrible skid row, downtown LA is, it is truly as bad as the worst science fiction movie could ever portray and my brother Patrick WAS CALLED to there, my brother is there, and i felt great shame that i am not by your side, but Jesus comforted me, as i am being pressed out HERE, and as i sat in the back, outside, Bible open, 8;50 AM central time, monday, i prayed for you, your family, the ministry Jesus has tasked you with, i prayed for you, and for those whom God loves, truly the least of these.

and then i come to this computer, and i read what you wrote, and i realized something Mighty, not because you "agree" with me....NO!....but that we see something together, and i am chastened and humbled that you are there, while i am here, still in Chicago.

i wanted to write this public, because i wanted others on this forum to see that God has said something to both of us, first, be encouraged, stay strong in Christ dear brother Patrick, and second that God the Holy Spirit and Jesus Christ our Lord is pulling me to you, i will, God willing be back in LA, and whatever 'mites' or copper and silver i can muster, or resource i can raise, will lay in your hand, as God leads me, there are exactly three public ministries i want to support, my home Church in Northridge, the Jonah Project, and this beloved ministry Sermonindex, because i dearly love my brother Greg Gordon, who is loved by God, the 95 theses that God gave to Greg are a mighty "architectural" document, and the Holy Spirit said to my heart, "Yes and amen" when i read them.

God is so good, in that draws the saints unto Himself, and to walk out this Most Precious Gospel.

in closing, i was most struck by the last verse in Daniel,

"But go your way till the end. And you shall rest and shall stand in your allotted place at the end of the days."
Daniel 12:13 (ESV)

in Jesus love to all here, neil

 2010/3/22 10:32

Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4535


Hi Patrick...


What a blessing it is to have a President is more concerned with spending our tax dollars for health care for the poor and saving people then for war and killing people! What a wonderful blessing and needed change in the dark world of American politics.

I also have refrained from meandering into politics, but I just wanted to comment on your comment.

The war continues unabated. Since the war was "won" in Iraq and Afghanistan in 2004 (and the goal of troops shifted into helping new governments to "keep the peace"), casualties have continued to climb. Many thousands of lives have been lost in the past year as the war escalated in Afghanistan. So, to be fair and a bit more accurate, we have a president who is spending our tax dollars on “a war and killing people” (your words) and also for massive health care reform (amongst other things).

What I found to be most remarkable about this health care bill is that most Americans don't even know what is in it! I spoke with my Congresswoman this week...and she admitted that she doesn't really know what this bill means in its entirety. She acknowledged that it is unpopular (with polls showing that 75% of Americans were opposed to it)...but voted in favor of it because "it gives control of health care to the government" and it "extends coverage to 5-6% more Americans." Of course, my local Congresswoman is staunchly pro-abortion and has no problem with the underhanded abortion language that will theoretically use our tax dollars to pay for abortions. I suppose that she initially assumed that I was pro-abortion, because she told me that she had several calls with President Obama and that he had “assured” her that President Obama will adamantly defend the “rights” of women to have “easy access” to abortion. This opened the door for me to share Christ, to which she quickly stated that she, too, is a Christian.

What does this health legislation actually mean?

I found it interesting that this was not presented with much clarity via the news media in the United States over the past year. However, the AP and the NY Times are now reporting the following:

- Individuals not living in poverty are now required by law to purchase health insurance.
- Subsidies will be offered to families making between poverty levels and less than $75K a year -- although the varying amount of these subsidies remains unclear.
- Last year, the bill proposed that families making $37K a year will be responsible for half of the cost of health insurance (which currently averages $10,000-17,500 for middle income families). So, a family earning $37K will be responsible to pay for half of the cost (an average between $5,000-8,750) toward the purchase of health care insurance.
- If your job provides health insurance (that is approved of by the government), you will not need to change your insurance company.
- Those working for companies or organizations (including churches or ministries) that do not provide insurance, or those who are self-employed and/or those who are small business owners are now required by law to purchase insurance.
- If you do NOT purchase insurance, you will be fined between $1500 to $4500 (depending on the size of your family) plus penalties for "late fees."
- If you do not pay the fine(s), you will face criminal charges and possible jail time.
- Taxes will rise by more than $400 Billion via increases in the Medicare tax -- with only about half of which will come from increases to the wealthy.
- Medicare and Medicaid will be cut by $500 Billion.
- There will be $200+ Billion in Federal payments cut from public hospitals and clinics.
- Medical device makers and pharmaceutical companies will see a hefty tax increase (about 25%) which will likely be passed down to consumers.
- Insurance companies will now be highly regulated by the government.
- Insurance companies have much less oversight regarding to whom they can extend coverage (such as those with preexisting conditions).
- Tort reform (including any limit on the profits of attorneys from medical lawsuits) was NOT a part of this bill.

I agree that some type of reform was needed. The current system was draining quite a bit of resources from the federal, state and local governments. However, I just didn’t agree with many of the peculiarities of this particular legislation. I suppose that the point from this current legislation that concerns me the most is the fact that it is now illegal to NOT purchase insurance. I find it amazing that such a sweeping piece of legislation can be passed by a simple majority of elected Congressmen against the will of most Americans. The power of the IRS is now greatly expanded to the point of fining individuals and families for failing to buy insurance. The powers of the Federal Government are expanded to the point of making this a requirement and even pressing criminal charges against those who cannot make such a purchase.

Ironically, I cannot imagine how a self-employed carpenter (or a “contract” worker) will be able to afford a $10,000-15,000 plan for his family when many such families barely “get by” in today’s bleak economic situation. Some middle class families (and self-employed workers) don’t have $50 leftover each month after all is said and done. The same can be said of many middle-income pastors and evangelists. Now, all of these will be required to purchase an expensive (and increasingly expensive) health care plan. If they don’t purchase such insurance, they will face a hefty fine (which is ironic, since they couldn’t afford insurance to begin with). If they don’t pay the fine, they will face criminal charges and possible jail time.

However, there is no need to fear.

With all of the fear mongering out there from all sides of this particular issue, we can rest in the knowledge that our God is still in control. He still sits on the throne. He still sees and knows each of us on a personal level. How marvelous! We can know and fellowship with the God who created all things! Each of us can spend time with Him…with the understanding that we are the apple of His eye…knowing that he sees, hears and knows us better than we know ourselves…and approach His throne of grace with confidence (Hebrews 4:16)!

I have been thinking lately about how short this life truly is. If a person lives to be 120 yrs old – it is not long enough to even compare with the immeasurable extent of Eternity! Yet, our eternal dwelling is contingent upon what we did with this short little thing called “life.” We all stand on the center of the timeline of Eternity. Behind us is an eternal past. Ahead of us is an eternal future. In trillions times trillions of years, this length of this life (and the sacrifices that we made) will seem so miniscule. Our future is bright…because we have chosen to give our lives back to the Lord.

When all is said and done…and we have been residents of Eternity for infinite infinites…the passing of this legislation (and legislation like it) won’t seem to be too important. The most important thing is what we did with Jesus. Did we meet with Him daily as we walked through the “wilderness of this world?” Did we long to see His face more than anything else? Did we spend our lives seeking to know Him and introduce Him to others? Did our light shine brightly everywhere we went (Matthew 5:16)? Did we truly love our wives and children and shower them with the love of God and the example of men who know and fellowship with God?

*EDIT - I don't mean to engage in a political discussion by this post. I understand that there are some believers here who oppose all threads regarding to legislation -- or personal views thereof (which could change if one is forced to stand before a "just" or "unjust judge" in regard to this). I love all of you so deeply that words could not express it! We might not agree on "earthly" (or even "spiritual") peculiarities, but we can support one another with the love of God that surpasses all understanding.


 2010/3/22 13:59Profile

Joined: 2006/6/15
Posts: 343


If you think the gov't has your best interest in mind in passing this massive piece of legislation... you are very very foolish.

The reason there is a thing such as checks and balances ingrained into the Constitution, is because the founding fathers understood the nature of man, that we are SINFUL at the very core, and that gov't will become corrupt if left to itself.

You either look to God for direction in life, or you will rely upon the corrupt men in gov't.


 2010/3/22 14:41Profile

Joined: 2009/4/20
Posts: 30


I pray we are more concerned with seeing the lost saved than we are with health care. How sad it is that people professing themselves to be Christian will travel to Washington to protest this bill but they won't even walk down the street to tell their neighbor the good news. People professing themselves to be Christian will read this long bill but let their bible lay idle.

Peter had this same spirit, when Jesus told the disciples what was to happen to Him in Matthew 16 the bible tells us that Peter rebuked Jesus. Peter desired for Jesus to fix the current political system, kick the Romans out of Israel, not die on the cross. I wonder if there are some that have a greater desire to see this bill stopped than see a lost soul saved. Jesus looked at Peter and rebuked him for being more concerned with earthly things than eternal.

Matthew 16:23 (KJV)
23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Let this not be said of us, that our interest is more for politics than the things of God. That we are more concerned with money being taken out of our pockets than the eternal soul of our neighbors and family.

I pray I am not coming off too harsh, and I am not saying the Christian can not be informed or concerned with this bill. I just pray we don't let our interest in politics consume us to the point that we spend more time in energy fighting health care reform than seeking after a lost soul that needs to hear the Good News. God Bless.

 2010/3/22 15:10Profile


I grow tired of some Christians who assume that just because there are believers who pay attention to whats going on in our world, and even get involved in something like politics then that means thats all these believers do... and that they do not minister or evangelize.

Where does this haughty, judgemental attitude come from? (the flesh)

Sometimes I get involved in a discussion about some doctrine on this site and suddenly there are those who think thats all I do in this life... discuss that topic.

Thats one dimensional.

[b]Fieldlaborer[/b]... do you know all those people who went to Washington personally? You must because you just accused them all of some serious things.

How sad it is that people professing themselves to be Christian will travel to Washington to protest this bill but they won't even walk down the street to tell their neighbor the good news.

I'm sure there are some folks like this... but you just accused and condemned the whole lot.

People professing themselves to be Christian will read this long bill but let their bible lay idle.

Really? Which ones... point them out to me.

Not saying there aren't people like that. I'm sure there are... but who are you to condemn all of them under a blanket of accusations?

People are upset about what just happened, and they have a right to be. I do not see any commands against that in the Bible. Even Paul used his Roman citizenship in order to demand his rights as a Roman citizen to have an audience with Roman officials while he was inprisoned.

Folks forget about that. Or perhaps you never read that? You tell me.

No, you were not harsh... you were judgemental, and I believe if you looked hard enough in the mirror you might notice shades of hypocracy... but it's ok. It's a condition we're all struggling with.


 2010/3/22 15:58

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